Juliet

Discuss the February 2016 book of the month, Before I Fall by Lauren Oliver.
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HorrorFan87
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Re: Juliet

Post by HorrorFan87 » 21 Feb 2016, 13:47

Scott wrote:Great question and good responses everyone. :)

I also feel the first time Sam apologized it seemed like her apology was more about herself than really being sorry. I think she revealed she was still in the process of becoming actually sorry. Before the end, Sam apologies seemed to contain a lot of excuses and minimizing the bullying.

Absolutely! In one of my other posts I pointed out that Sam was nothing but a bully and I didn't feel she had any redemptive qualities, even though she tried to help Juliet in the end. I think this just backs up my opinion even more. I saw Sam as a very egotistical, narrow-minded girl who didn't really care if she did anything wrong or not. The first apology had no meaning or feeling to it and I will be honest, that was really frustrating for me. I used to work with people who would do something mean or wrong, apologize, and then refuse to change their actions, resulting in them repeating said actions. I have a hard time dealing with people like this so Sam really grated on me all the way up to the end. So, as far as her apologies go (and this is including the last one), I couldn't agree more that they seemed feigned and relatively forced. I have to hand it to the author though, writing a character to act that way and make forced apologies isn't easy and I think she did a fantastic job conveying those traits and emotions.
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Post by quadbrookie » 27 Feb 2016, 15:24

KAV wrote:
Taylor Razzani wrote:
ashley_claire wrote:I'm pretty sure she did survive at the end. I just think the guilt of someone dying for her would make her issues worse, not better. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I had a thought like that to. ...or what if the girls made it worse because they lost their friend because of her. The ideal thing would be for them to realize life is too short to be so petty, but who knows.
Do you really think Lindsay is going to suddenly forgive Juliette for the death of her best friend after seven years of ridicule for something that Juliette didn't even do? I stand by what I said in a different forum. This situation is only going to get worse for Juliette. People are going to blame her for Sam's death. There is going to be a lot more guilt on Juliette's conscious than wetting the bed when you are 11 because this situation was caused by her. In my opinion, she will probably still commit suicide.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Juliette is really going to have some problems!
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Post by hsimone » 29 Feb 2016, 10:34

When someone reaches the point of trying to commit suicide and no one sees it coming, it's going to be very hard to bounce back. I honestly feel that the only way that Juliet is going to be okay after all of this is for Lindsay to apologize to her and potentially rekindle their friendship.

1) Her parents aren't helpful, obviously, and can't see how depressed their daughter is, especially comparing her to her very bubbly sister.
2) The guidance counselor at school is absolutely not enough and the teachers are oblivious.
3) Her younger sister won't know what to do, she is way too young to even try to understand why her sister would try to kill herself.

Poor Juliet. I believe she represents so many people, young and older, and I wish there was a way to stop someone from ending their life...
"Love is patient, love is kind." -1 Corinthians 13:4

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Post by bekkilyn » 01 Mar 2016, 15:05

I think Sam saving Juliet from suicide was only temporary at best. Everyone's going to blame her for what happened to Sam, her home life will probably get worse because her drunk of a father will blame her for bringing more trouble to an already bad home situation, and now she will have feelings of guilt for Sam's death on her conscience. What about what happened is going to make her believe that the world still wouldn't be better off without her in it? On top of Juliet's tragedy, Sam's death is for no real purpose and no one is really better off for it.

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Post by hsimone » 01 Mar 2016, 17:13

Very good points. I have to say that I agree with what you said. This is where an epilogue would be nice in a way - to see the actual outcome of Sam saving Juliet.
"Love is patient, love is kind." -1 Corinthians 13:4

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Post by jhollan2 » 01 Mar 2016, 17:22

I agree with the posters who believe that Juliet will probably still kill herself in the future. What is shown in the book over and over is that the roots of her psychological and emotional pain and anger are deep and have been there for years and years. A single apology or a single moment wouldn't be enough to change that and it is very unlikely that causing the death of one of the most popular girls in school will make her life any easier. I suppose that actually watching someone else die could drive home to her how horrible and painful it is to die, but it is likely to have a much more devastating effect on her mental state.

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Post by hsimone » 02 Mar 2016, 06:49

jhollan2 wrote:I agree with the posters who believe that Juliet will probably still kill herself in the future. What is shown in the book over and over is that the roots of her psychological and emotional pain and anger are deep and have been there for years and years. A single apology or a single moment wouldn't be enough to change that and it is very unlikely that causing the death of one of the most popular girls in school will make her life any easier. I suppose that actually watching someone else die could drive home to her how horrible and painful it is to die, but it is likely to have a much more devastating effect on her mental state.
:text-goodpost:
"Love is patient, love is kind." -1 Corinthians 13:4

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Post by quadbrookie » 04 Mar 2016, 11:55

It is possible that by Sam saving Juliette that she may change her outlook on killing herself! I found the contrast between Juliette and her little sister to be remarkable. I can't help but think that Juliette would be just as outgoing as her sister if she hadn't fallen victim to Lindsay and all her bullying!

-- 04 Mar 2016, 11:55 --

It is possible that by Sam saving Juliette that she may change her outlook on killing herself! I found the contrast between Juliette and her little sister to be remarkable. I can't help but think that Juliette would be just as outgoing as her sister if she hadn't fallen victim to Lindsay and all her bullying!
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Post by hsimone » 05 Mar 2016, 11:44

I absolutely agree - Juilet would be just as outgoing as her younger sister if she didn't fall victim to Lindsay and the bullying. Hopefully, Sam saving her life changes her perspective. I think it'll all come down to if the bullying continues or not since home life isn't so great.
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Post by MatthewAlexander » 06 Mar 2016, 19:57

I definitely agree. While the bullying didn't help, Juliet probably had clinical depression, which I doubt was brought on simply because of the bullying but was more than likely worsened by it. It's sad that we don't ever get to know for sure what was truly wrong, or if she had other, deeper problems.

-- 06 Mar 2016, 20:57 --

I definitely agree. While the bullying didn't help, Juliet probably had clinical depression, which I doubt was brought on simply because of the bullying but was more than likely worsened by it. It's sad that we don't ever get to know for sure what was truly wrong, or if she had other, deeper problems.
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Post by Sarah G » 10 Mar 2016, 12:56

I'm hoping that someone was willing to give their life for hers might make her value her life more and maybe put her on the right track.

I liked the fact that the answer for Juliet wasn't so cut and dry. It is true that depression like hers cannot be cured with a simple sorry. The book covered her side of the story well.
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Post by VinuW » 14 Mar 2016, 14:01

I too believe that Sam's death is only going to make matters worse. Lindsay is not a forgiving character; she probably would bully Juliet even more.
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Post by Insomniac07 » 04 Apr 2016, 12:24

KAV wrote:
Taylor Razzani wrote:
ashley_claire wrote:I'm pretty sure she did survive at the end. I just think the guilt of someone dying for her would make her issues worse, not better. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I had a thought like that to. ...or what if the girls made it worse because they lost their friend because of her. The ideal thing would be for them to realize life is too short to be so petty, but who knows.
Do you really think Lindsay is going to suddenly forgive Juliette for the death of her best friend after seven years of ridicule for something that Juliette didn't even do? I stand by what I said in a different forum. This situation is only going to get worse for Juliette. People are going to blame her for Sam's death. There is going to be a lot more guilt on Juliette's conscious than wetting the bed when you are 11 because this situation was caused by her. In my opinion, she will probably still commit suicide.
You guys summed up pretty much everything that I was thinking as I turned the final page. In an ideal world, Sam's sacrifice would mean something and change their lives for the better. But when Lindsay loses her best friend, would she really be in a position to think anything but antagonistic thoughts towards Juliet? Best possible scenario would be that she ignores Juliet's existence as a measure of respect towards Sam's efforts.
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Post by mmandy38 » 19 May 2016, 00:29

I do think that Juliet had more things harming her than just being bullied by Lindsey and her crew. I honestly wish that Lindsey would have stepped up and had a conversation with Juliet after she admitted to Sam that it was actually her that wet the bed. I think if someone other than Sam showed Juliet that her life mattered, maybe she would have agreed. I unfortunately agree with the others that say everything will be wise now though because she will be blamed for Samantha dying.
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Post by AmySmiles » 31 Aug 2018, 09:58

I felt horrible for Juliet and can't imagine what it would be like to be in a situation where you wanted to die, no matter what people did to try to convince you not to.
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