Juliet

Discuss the February 2016 book of the month, Before I Fall by Lauren Oliver.
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Juliet

Post by ashley_claire » 01 Feb 2016, 12:08

What did you think about Juliet's determination to find a way to kill herself no matter what Sam tried to do to stop her? I like the choice the author made that it would take more than the simple task of Sam apologizing to undo this monumental decision that Juliet has made. That would be too easy. I think Juliet's problems go far beyond Lindsay's bullying, though I'm sure that didn't help. Overall I just feel so sad for Juliet and feel that her issues are so deep rooted that I'm not sure Sam sacrificing herself for Juliet is even enough to save her in the long run.

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Post by gali » 01 Feb 2016, 12:25

I agree with you. I also felt sad for her. She survived, didn't she? The ending was a bit confusing. I hope Juliet will deal with her issues, after all Sam went through for to save her.
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Post by ashley_claire » 01 Feb 2016, 12:51

I'm pretty sure she did survive at the end. I just think the guilt of someone dying for her would make her issues worse, not better. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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Post by Taylor Razzani » 01 Feb 2016, 19:05

ashley_claire wrote:I'm pretty sure she did survive at the end. I just think the guilt of someone dying for her would make her issues worse, not better. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I had a thought like that to. ...or what if the girls made it worse because they lost their friend because of her. The ideal thing would be for them to realize life is too short to be so petty, but who knows.
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Post by Thimble » 02 Feb 2016, 00:23

I think Juliet did not have a good home life and the bullying from Lindsay and the rest of the kids in town just compounded everything over the years. I hope that after the book ended, Lindsay and Juliet would have been able to talk and discuss what happened. Maybe they could have even become friends again, or at least amicable acquaintances. I can understand why Juliet wouldn't accept Sam's help right away. I was bullied in Junior High and any time after that if someone was trying to help or was too nice to me I would immediately not trust them or the situation. Sometimes I still have issues with this and it's been a really long time since then.
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Post by Scott » 03 Feb 2016, 09:39

Great question and good responses everyone. :)

I also feel the first time Sam apologized it seemed like her apology was more about herself than really being sorry. I think she revealed she was still in the process of becoming actually sorry. Before the end, Sam apologies seemed to contain a lot of excuses and minimizing the bullying.
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Post by Taylor Razzani » 03 Feb 2016, 10:09

Scott wrote:Great question and good responses everyone. :)

I also feel the first time Sam apologized it seemed like her apology was more about herself than really being sorry. I think she revealed she was still in the process of becoming actually sorry. Before the end, Sam apologies seemed to contain a lot of excuses and minimizing the bullying.
That part was so infuriating! I just wanted to yell at Sam that it was not helping in the slightest, it pretty much just confirmed what Juliet thought about them. I think her final act was probably the best she could do to save her, by showing her that her life actually mattered and someone cared enough to show her that.
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Post by TrishaAnn92 » 09 Feb 2016, 08:22

I agree. The whole thing in the end was terrible. But I thought the whole thing showed how large an impact bullying can have on a persons life. I think by Sam giving her life to save hers, Juliet saw that somebody other than her family cared about what she did with her life. And I hope that when you think about it she didn't choose to take her life anyways after that, but I think it would have been nice in the epilogue to have showed or given what happened to everybody else. Or what their reactions where. But as it is, it's pretty easy to guess.
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Post by anonanemone » 10 Feb 2016, 11:43

Juliet was systematically isolated amongst her peers by Lindsey and as a consequence was left with virtually no support system. She is way past being able to recover from everything on her own without a lot of help. The story ends with Juliet telling Sam "You saved me" followed by "No, the opposite." I take this to mean that she feels Sam's actions have damned her or condemned her to living. I would guess she was resigned to it. I can only imagine that Sam dying would have made her even more of a pariah with her peers. Hopefully, her family will get her help and support.
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Post by Taylor Razzani » 10 Feb 2016, 13:59

anonanemone wrote:Juliet was systematically isolated amongst her peers by Lindsey and as a consequence was left with virtually no support system. She is way past being able to recover from everything on her own without a lot of help. The story ends with Juliet telling Sam "You saved me" followed by "No, the opposite." I take this to mean that she feels Sam's actions have damned her or condemned her to living. I would guess she was resigned to it. I can only imagine that Sam dying would have made her even more of a pariah with her peers. Hopefully, her family will get her help and support.
I never thought of it that way. I guess I was too optimistic thinking she meant that Juliet saved her by helping her realize things about herself and the world around her and ultimately letting her be at peace and not living that day over and over again. But you have a point, she could have absolutely meant that! Very interesting and it raises more questions.
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Post by CrescentMoon » 12 Feb 2016, 23:34

Wow I didn't really think about that. I also thought that Sam sacrificing herself would be enough to show Juliet that she does have a life worth living. Clearly it's not going to be easy for her to come to terms with that but I like to think that it's a step in the right direction. I don't think Juliet's problems are fully gone or that she will come out of this completely changed but I would hope she could at least get some hope for herself and plan a better future.
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Post by saturday+deviant » 13 Feb 2016, 15:20

CrescentMoon wrote:I also thought that Sam sacrificing herself would be enough to show Juliet that she does have a life worth living.
I also had that feeling, when Sam gave up her life so Juliet could live hers. In a way by Sam "sacrificing" her life to save Juliet, Juliet's was worth more than Sam's.
On a side note, I wish that Sam didn't mention Juliet's "ethereal beauty" every time that she saw the girl.
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Post by pallavi garg » 15 Feb 2016, 11:12

Sam telling juliet that she saved her... I jus think sam was consoling herself that atlast she is able to redeem herself by saving juliet...I feel dat would make juliet more of target since sam lost her life to save juliet...

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Post by KAV » 16 Feb 2016, 14:17

Taylor Razzani wrote:
ashley_claire wrote:I'm pretty sure she did survive at the end. I just think the guilt of someone dying for her would make her issues worse, not better. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I had a thought like that to. ...or what if the girls made it worse because they lost their friend because of her. The ideal thing would be for them to realize life is too short to be so petty, but who knows.
Do you really think Lindsay is going to suddenly forgive Juliette for the death of her best friend after seven years of ridicule for something that Juliette didn't even do? I stand by what I said in a different forum. This situation is only going to get worse for Juliette. People are going to blame her for Sam's death. There is going to be a lot more guilt on Juliette's conscious than wetting the bed when you are 11 because this situation was caused by her. In my opinion, she will probably still commit suicide.
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Post by Taylor Razzani » 16 Feb 2016, 14:25

KAV wrote:
Taylor Razzani wrote:
ashley_claire wrote:I'm pretty sure she did survive at the end. I just think the guilt of someone dying for her would make her issues worse, not better. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I had a thought like that to. ...or what if the girls made it worse because they lost their friend because of her. The ideal thing would be for them to realize life is too short to be so petty, but who knows.
Do you really think Lindsay is going to suddenly forgive Juliette for the death of her best friend after seven years of ridicule for something that Juliette didn't even do? I stand by what I said in a different forum. This situation is only going to get worse for Juliette. People are going to blame her for Sam's death. There is going to be a lot more guilt on Juliette's conscious than wetting the bed when you are 11 because this situation was caused by her. In my opinion, she will probably still commit suicide.
The ideal scenario isn't always the one that's going to happen unfortunately. I don't think Lindsay is capable of change that easily and she probably did only make things worse for Juliet. I hoped it wouldn't be the case but my first thought when I finished the book was that things would only get worse for Juliet.
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