Oxford Comma ~ Yes or No?

Some grammar rules (and embarrassing mistakes!) transcend the uniqueness of different regions and style guides. This new International Grammar section by OnlineBookClub.org ultimately identifies those rules thus providing a simple, flexible rule-set, respecting the differences between regions and style guides. You can feel free to ask general questions about spelling and grammar. You can also provide example sentences for other members to proofread and inform you of any grammar mistakes.

Moderator: Official Reviewer Representatives

Oxford Comma?

Yes!
67
93%
No!
5
7%
 
Total votes: 72

AmandaRuth
Posts: 23
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 22:05
Bookshelf Size: 18

Re: Oxford Comma ~ Yes or No?

Post by AmandaRuth »

Yes! I teach third grade in Nepal and I have taught all of my students to use the Oxford comma. It is not necessary in every situation, but it adds important clarity in enough situations. Have you heard the song by Vampire Weekend about the Oxford comma?
User avatar
moderntimes
Posts: 2249
Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
Favorite Author: James Joyce
Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
Bookshelf Size: 0
fav_author_id: 2516

Post by moderntimes »

No. I'll check Youtube however. Thanks.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
AmandaRuth
Posts: 23
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 22:05
Bookshelf Size: 18

Post by AmandaRuth »

The song might not be for everyone, but it is the song that remind me of the Oxford comma. Unfortunately, the lyrics are such that we can't play it for the kids!
User avatar
Veritas1325
Posts: 7
Joined: 07 Nov 2015, 20:05
Currently Reading: Caliban's War
Bookshelf Size: 18
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-veritas1325.html

Post by Veritas1325 »

An unequivocal yes!
User avatar
Alec Corvi
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Dec 2015, 20:37
Favorite Author: Ann Rice
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-alec-corvi.html
Publishing Contest Votes: 1
fav_author_id: 3391

Post by Alec Corvi »

Yes! - Only yes and just, yes.
User avatar
sagirudn1
Posts: 6
Joined: 26 Dec 2015, 02:16
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-sagirudn1.html

Post by sagirudn1 »

I say yes
Chels14
Posts: 12
Joined: 04 Jan 2016, 12:21
Bookshelf Size: 1

Post by Chels14 »

I was a little unsure of how Oxford commas were used. This post was very informing! Thanks everyone.
User avatar
moderntimes
Posts: 2249
Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
Favorite Author: James Joyce
Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
Bookshelf Size: 0
fav_author_id: 2516

Post by moderntimes »

There seems to still be some ambiguity about what the Oxford comma really is. Most folks believe it's a comma before the "and" in a list of equal items:

The balloons were red, blue and green. (no comma before the "and")
vs
The balloons were red, blue, and green. ("Oxford comma" before the "and")

However I found in an ACTUAL guide published by, wait for it, Oxford University, that the comma is used to separate unequal items in a list:

I ate fish and chips, and ice cream and cake. (comma before the "and" is the real Oxford comma) See my post #11 in this thread to see the actual example from the real, true Oxford University guide.

And then, it turns out that another genuine Oxford University publication seems to conflict another publication of its own press.

I'd always thought that the Oxford comma was the former example (balloons) until I saw the actual Oxford guide which SPECIFICALLY names the "Oxford comma" as one which is used in an unequal list (the food sentence). But another Oxford U publication seems to contradict this.

So I dunno. I'd always used the comma in a list of equal items. This use was common in the US but not so in the UK, and in recent years, the comma is deleted from US style as well. But my publisher provided the Oxford guide and so I've deleted the comma in all my novels. That's the "balloon" comma in the former example above, and continued to use the comma in an unequal list (the latter example).

In all the books which I've been reading in the past few years, the comma in an equal list is deleted, for both US and UK typography. These are new professionally published books. So apparently, the omission of the "Oxford comma" in a list of equal items has become the standard.

Therefore, anyone who's submitting for professional publication or sale, best to omit the "balloon" usage comma. Personally, I don't care.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
User avatar
DanAmerson
Posts: 3
Joined: 12 Jan 2016, 11:35
Bookshelf Size: 0

Post by DanAmerson »

I say yes. Regardless, you should use it deliberately because to do otherwise could be an amphiboly (ambiguity in the text).
User avatar
MaiaCer
Posts: 14
Joined: 11 Jan 2016, 18:25
Favorite Book: <a href="http://forums.onlinebookclub.org/shelve ... 51">Summer Lust</a>
Currently Reading: The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty
Bookshelf Size: 13
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-maiacer.html
Latest Review: "The Eye of Ra" by Brian J. Davies

Post by MaiaCer »

Actually, as an USA author and past editor I expect the Oxford comma. I am aware of both of the usages. It is not something that I consider a deal breaker if I see both consistency in usage and ease of reading. Anything that throws me out of my 'suspension of disbelief', and back to the real word is a cause for concern.
Latest Review: "The Eye of Ra" by Brian J. Davies
User avatar
moderntimes
Posts: 2249
Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
Favorite Author: James Joyce
Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
Bookshelf Size: 0
fav_author_id: 2516

Post by moderntimes »

The US was behind the UK in omitting the "Oxford" comma (which I still hold isn't the right definition) -- comma before the "and" in a list of equal items. So it's taken me time to switch to omit the comma, but since this is now standard usage for both US and UK, away it goes.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
User avatar
RachelErmutlu
Posts: 16
Joined: 12 Jan 2016, 08:46
Favorite Author: Ted Dekker
Currently Reading: Eldest
Bookshelf Size: 20
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-rachelermutlu.html
fav_author_id: 2881

Post by RachelErmutlu »

I think an Oxford comma should be used. The sentence and the sentence meaning can be confusing if it is not.
User avatar
moderntimes
Posts: 2249
Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
Favorite Author: James Joyce
Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
Bookshelf Size: 0
fav_author_id: 2516

Post by moderntimes »

Rachel, your concern is directed toward the unequal list, which is what I believe is the actual Oxford comma, such as:

I ordered fish and chips, and ice cream and cake.

This comma prior to the "and" is what I think is the genuine Oxford comma and is not the list of equal items, such as:

I bought red, blue and green balloons.

Where the omitted comma is often termed the Oxford comma, but in absence (which doesn't make sense) and even though many want a comma before the "and" in that sentence, it makes sense with or without the comma.

But it all comes down on what your editor / publisher wants, I suppose. I used the "balloon" comma until I received the stylebook from my editor, and so I removed that "equal list" comma in my manuscripts when I submitted the galley proofs.

Regardless, the use of the "equal list" comma (the balloon example) is in decline both in the US and UK. Likely it will disappear in 10 years.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
User avatar
CzechTigg
Posts: 256
Joined: 28 Sep 2015, 13:48
Currently Reading: Free Fish Friday
Bookshelf Size: 35
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-czechtigg.html
Latest Review: "Finding the Phoenix" by Caitlin O'Connor

Post by CzechTigg »

Great thread. Just the one sentence can lead to confusion. But elaboration can be enough for the reader, even if a grammar sin is committed.
Latest Review: "Finding the Phoenix" by Caitlin O'Connor
User avatar
rainyday
Posts: 8
Joined: 29 Jan 2016, 14:22
Bookshelf Size: 2

Post by rainyday »

Absolutely! I'm a huge fan of the Oxford comma. When I took a journalism class a year ago, it came to my attention that the Oxford comma is generally unused in journalistic writing. I was a little bit sad.
Post Reply

Return to “International Grammar”