Oxford Comma ~ Yes or No?

[moderntimes]

Sad here too. I had always use the comma before the "and" in a list of equal items, and I think it helps the mind of the reader separate items but hey, that comma is now not a used thing. So it goes.

[EmmaBookish]

I personally think the comma before the 'and' solves a lot of confusion. For example: google images the phrase 'oxford comma orange juice'. Although they have stated this is the oxford comma (which moderntimes has clearly described is actually NOT the oxford comma) the content of the post is why i still choose to use a comma before the 'and'.

[moderntimes]

Well, I'm just basing my concept of the Oxford comma on the actual gen-you-wine style guide published by Oxford University themselves, in which the "Oxford comma" is clearly defined -- and it's actually listed as the Oxford comma -- for use in separating a list of UNEQUAL items, such as:

I ordered fish and chips, and cake and ice cream.

where the comma before the "and" is defined BY OXFORD at the Oxford comma. And using the comma is correct in that sentence, to avoid a misinterpretation.

And logically, you can't define a comma by leaving it out, but only if you use it, right? And therefore, the comma in a list of EQUAL items, such as

I bought red, blue, and green balloons.

is actually left out in accordance to Oxford University style guides rules, and so, following the rules which Oxford themselves published, the correct sentence is

I bought red, blue and green balloons.

because omitting the commma doesn't mess up the meaning of the sentence, but regardless, that's not the actual Oxford comma as they themselves define it. Now we might feel it's more comfy to include the comma, but the actual guide by Oxford themselves says to omit it. And in contemporary Brit usage, that comma hasn't been used for decades. In common US usage, that comma in an equal list has gradually gone away here, too. When I learned English composition in the 50s and 60s, that comma was included. When I worked for a major newspaper in the 60s (Kansas City Star) the comma was used.

But in the last, oh, 20 years, the comma prior to the "and" in a list of equal items had been omitted in US usage, to match what the Brits have been doing for much longer, maybe the 40s or 50s was when this changed in the UK usage.

Regardless, according to the actual Oxford style guide which I've got in PDF -- anyone who wants the guide, PM me with your email and I'll send you the free Oxford guide, the comma prior to the "and" in a list of equal items (balloon sentence) is NOT the Oxford comma, but the comma in an UNEQUAL list is actually the Oxford comma, which IS used to prevent confusion.

But hey, I've got no dog in this hunt. When my publisher sent the style guide, I made a few small edits to my 3 novels prior to submitting them, and this included deleting the comma in a list of equal items. Comes with the territory.

I really don't care. Were I to choose, I'd leave the comma in, but I'm also a very fast learner and have changed with the times as I've lived. Despite being in my 70s, I'm always open to new ideas. Which is why all my writing goes straight to my trusty HP laptop via MS-Word and I never use physical notepads and haven't for years. I may look like a dinosaur but I'm a gazelle in the ol' grey matter between the ears, ha ha.

[b00kw0rm84]

I would suspect that anyone who reads and enjoys literature would say yes, right?

[moderntimes]

I don't think love of literature makes any difference. Use of the comma in a list of equal items is not really necessary to improve meaning. If there is a difficulty in the comprehension, then yes, the comma is useful. But in the list of equal items, comma prior to the "and" isn't necessary for comprehension.

Actually, I couldn't care less. I've started to omit that comma in my writing and it doesn't hurt a bit.

[EmilyHeather]

I vote yes to the oxford comma. Why not use it in order to make meaning so much clearer and to avoid all confusion? I don't see what it can hurt.

[PashaRu]

Yes, and no.

[moderntimes]

Good one, Pashsa!

[Goms]

I still don't know what an Oxford comma is. Guess I'd have to do a quick search on Google to get that one, then maybe come back to give a meaningful post. Not that I don't know how to construct a good sentence, though.

[moderntimes]

There is apparently some disagreement here as to what the Oxford comma really is.

Some think that it's a comma prior to the "and" in a list of equal items:

I bought red, yellow, and blue balloons.

Where the Oxford comma is to use (or omit) that comma. Some, myself included, reading the actual Oxford University PDF guide, think that it's the comma prior to the "and" in a list of unequal items, to prevent confusion:

I ate fish and chips, and cake and ice cream.

So join the club.

[jessicah]

Wow! I'm so happy to have read this - I'm currently writing a e-cookbook and will go through and add the appropriate comma. Yes - oxford comma!

[moderntimes]

I was using the comma in the list of equal items (which I don't believe is the actual Oxford comma) such as:

I bought red, yellow, and green balloons.

Because US usage had included this comma prior to the "and" for years when the UK standard omitted the comma. When I wrote for a newspaper we used the comma.

But in recent years, US usage has changed to agree with the UK standard and the comma is omitted. When I sold my novels to a publisher last year, their style guide omitted that comma, so I did a quick pass thru my books and deleted the comma when I submitted to them for final galley proofs.

If you include the comma in a list of equal items (the balloon example) your publisher may turn around and ask it be omitted when you sell your cookbook. So adding the comma may be futile, ha ha.

[Scott]

[moderntimes]

Which illustrates the REAL use of the Oxford comma, Scott. It's used to prevent confusion.

Now if I'd submitted any sentence similar to those funny examples, my editor would spike it back to me with "Rewrite!" scribbled in blue pencil in the margin.

And so each of those sentences could be revised to prevent silly stuff from leaking out.

I still maintain that the so-called Oxford comma is NOT for a list of equal items which can't be confused by its omission:

"I bought red, blue and green balloons." is coherent and not confusing regardless of whether the comma before the "and" is there. And that the genuine Oxford comma is correctly used in a list of unequal items to prevent confusion. As per that actual Oxford University style guide which I have, which specifically gives examples and specifically labels these the Oxford comma. From the source, as it were.

In your examples above, of course, revising the sentences is better.

[missbeccamarie]

I always use an Oxford comma when writing for school (History or science papers), but not always when I'm writing a short story or thematic paper. It's always useful, but sometimes I omit it for sentence flow purposes.