Does the bad always creep back up?

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.
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Re: Does the bad always creep back up?

Post by soccerstar95 » 09 Jun 2014, 16:05

I agree with that statement because most people are okay on their own. However, when you add in outside influences and peer pressure, the need to conform tends to make people do things that they might not have done if they didn't feel like they need to belong.

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Post by roguexunited » 10 Jun 2014, 10:42

Personally I think that idea is obsolete. Many authors have gone past the whole good and bad thing (back and white) and stablished that life isn't that simple, there are always shades of grey. So I don't think that back creeps out, it's always been there just as the good.

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Post by Esrever » 11 Jun 2014, 12:12

Wow. Hmm, I think this is referring to the fact that one: we are not a utopian society and two: man cannot be ultimately good. We are bound by our moral compass.

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Post by serena08max » 11 Jun 2014, 12:23

I feel that behavioral modes are a matter of choice. Most people choose how they respond to situations. Our first reaction is usually not the best one in the long run. I say most people because it appears that we have become inundated with people who act impulsively and cause much sorrow and chaos because of mental illness.

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Post by Esrever » 11 Jun 2014, 19:54

Exactly. The very fact that the disillusionment (not quite a spoiler!!) of Erudite and maybe the factions in general shows that people are going to act in their own interests. Now this doesn't mean that it's for the better either.

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Post by H0LD0Nthere » 11 Jun 2014, 22:10

As some other commenters have pointed out, this is a Judeo/Christian idea, that people, and even the world itself, is fundamentally broken. I do agree. This doesn't mean people are not capable of good, but that there is a very serious tendency for things to go wrong. Murphy's Law is real.

I know that doesn't sound very cheery, but I think it's essential to acknowledge this. If you assume that people naturally tend to do good, and it's only (insert your personal Public Enemy #1) that is messing things up, then you will try to make the world better in very unrealistic ways that ultimately do a lot of harm.

And in fact, it seems that the greatest harm is done by earnest people who want to create heaven on earth by stamping out all the bad things and starting over with a perfect society. Numerous dystopias have shown this, but also numerous cases in history. "Everything will be PERFECT if we can just get rid of the capitalists / communists / Jews / Hutus / rich people / educated people / uneducated people / low self-esteem" ... and the list goes on. Then, the purveyors of perfection are shocked and dismayed when things DON'T get perfect. They must not have done enough stamping out! So they start to see the hated group, or proponents of the hated idea, everywhere, and to ALSO stamp out anyone who is not condemning the Public Enemy strongly enough ... and rapidly, they have brought us hell on earth.

So, to sum up, if anyone claims to be working for, or bringing us, or be on the cusp of, utopia ... RUN!

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Post by stoppoppingtheP » 17 Jun 2014, 05:07

I think that most people are a mixture of good and bad. What makes them distinct is the part they allow to flourish. Some people will tend to the good, and the balance will tip that way, and other people will tend to the bad side of themselves.

I don't think anybody is completely good or bad even though their dominant side might overpower so we can only see that side of them

“there have been so many times
i have seen a man wanting to weep
beat his heart until it was unconscious.


― Nayyirah Waheed

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Post by alex_ » 24 Jun 2014, 16:33

Simply put yes. That is because there is always bad things happening in your life, whether you caused it or not. And as humans we tend to make the best of things, but by doing this we're not erasing the bad, we're just choosing to not give it so much attention. And sometimes you can't help think about the bad things in your life and you feel like bad things are creeping up, but they've always been there.

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Post by Darling_Reads » 24 Jun 2014, 17:53

I think that this quote also goes along with the old saying of "One bad apple ruins the bunch". It doesn't take but one person to stray in the wrong direction to cause a lot of hurt and anguish among people. It is unfortunate that human kind cannot all be loving and caring. Even if the majority of people are good, if one person comes along an shoots up a school it ruins it for that whole community. Unfortunately, it does seem that the bad always does seem to come out of the woodwork somewhere.

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Post by pagenumber394 » 27 Jun 2014, 13:21

I think it is part of our nature.

There will always be war, hate, evil, and greed. That is just the dark side of human nature. We cannot kill that part of us. It takes great personal effort to remain pure, whole, and a good person. Even good people do bad things from time to time.

I think there would have to be an evolutionary change to humans to change our nature. We are who we were thousands of years ago, and we will continue to be the same. The Digital Era may have brought us out of the dark ages, but no technological advances can change the way we act/think naturally.

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Post by amen jamir » 28 Jun 2014, 05:58

I have to agree with this. On the inside of each human, I feel there is always a fierce combat going on between the good and evil forces and by nature man is not infallible. They fall, rectify errors, redeem and life goes on.

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Post by kody » 28 Jun 2014, 15:18

Human beings as a whole always have the bad creep back up. That is why we had the Crusades, Napolean, Cesear, Hitler, and other events/people that come along. I believe that individuals can keep the bad at bay but from history we see that human beings as a whole have not found a way to keep the bad at bay.

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Post by EvieHanlon » 30 Jun 2014, 20:38

Each person's perspective of what's considered good or bad is different to the next. All we can do is try to do the best we can on any given day and yes, the bad will creep up.. what we do with each peice of 'bad' is totally up to us.. :)

I think it's relevant to point out though that as a 'whole' it's most likely true. Have a look at any country, organisation etc... most have a history that repeats a similar story over and over, before they 'get it', if they ever do.

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Post by anomalocaris » 30 Jun 2014, 20:56

A lot of the issues arise because of the human need to feel that we're separate and apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. Even though we obviously act on the same instincts -- dominance displays I'M in charge here, and I don't appreciate you questioning my decisions!), territorial squabbles (You come into MY neighborhood, you're asking for trouble!), fighting over breeding rights ("Hey! Were you looking at my girlfriend?")-- we like to pretend we're not, so we make up excuses. If we just accepted that we have the same instincts, we can simply say, "Yep, there's that old territorial instinct raising its head again, but fortunately, I have a frontal cortex, so I don't need to be a slave to instincts." I think that may be asking too much of today's humans, though. Maybe in a few hundred years.
You can't put a rope around the neck of an idea.
--Vol. Bobby Sands

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Post by Heather » 30 Jun 2014, 21:28

Interesting question. As far as individuals go, I would say a person can be good and stay good. But society as a whole? Yeah, I'd say no matter how good it is, bad is always bound to show up at some point.

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