Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post by Heather » 30 Jun 2014, 21:44

I guess anyone has the right to be jealous, but that doesn't mean they should be. Honestly, it bothered me when they would get upset with her for doing well. I didn't understand why they would treat her that way. She didn't act in a way that deserved that kind of treatment.

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Post by Books_are_Life » 12 Jul 2014, 13:56

It is selfish of her to crave victory because victory is not essential to survival. It is how ever brave that she push farther and farther because most people reach a point in their skills and say that is the best they can do and not to keep trying for the next level.

It is natural for her friends to be jealous and the fact that they were sorry of their actions makes all well.

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Post by kismoody » 14 Jul 2014, 19:51

I think it's both. Bravery is great, but victory suggests that it's absolute, at all costs. That in and of itself could be selfish.

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Post by Apogea » 15 Jul 2014, 12:10

I think it is selfish, as she is trying to win, so she will not become factionless
Her friends I feel do have a right to be jealous, and I think if I was Tris, I would not forgive them for the actions at all.

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Post by kalyever » 15 Jul 2014, 15:28

I think it is more selfish than brave. Even in the beginning of the book when we first get an insight to Tris's thoughts, I had the feeling she was selfish. Yes, different than the rest of her faction which would explain her thoughts, and would explain her need to venture away. I think when you think about where she came from she is being brave, but until you really think about it, it comes off as selfish.
Tris's friends have the right to be jealous, even though they shouldn't. There were times through different stages of their training that they excelled at different parts. I would forgive them solely on the fact that the friends did not she was a Divergent. Tris can't blame them for what she can do to help herself through different stages of initiation.

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Post by SidnayC » 15 Jul 2014, 16:58

Competitiveness is what drives people to be excel and in this case it would allow her to not to become factionless so yes it is selfish but I don't think it's necessary a bad type of selfishness.
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Post by toshilou » 19 Jul 2014, 22:18

I think it's both. It is slightly selfish, I suppose, but it is also brave.
It's okay for her friends to be jealous of her high ranking. Either way they're still her friends! And I'm sure Tris would be jealous too had it been reversed.

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Post by NanoWasabi » 30 Aug 2014, 22:31

I think that craving victory is never selfish, but it can't be brave either. Rather, the decisions that you make in order to achieve victory are what determine if you're selfish or brave.

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Post by cjmayes118 » 02 Sep 2014, 22:03

The craving that Tris possessed for victory is more brave than selfish. Without individuals like her desiring to be victorious, there would be no bravery throughout the factions. Admittedly her family was tempted to view her decision as selfish. But Tris had to do what she was passionate about. It was understandable that her friends were jealous that she was ranked above them. Understandable, but not necessarily right. They had every opportunity and then some to prove that they were worthy of higher rankings. If I was Tris, I would forgive them for being jealous because I would eventually need them on my team fighting alongside me.

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Post by MatthewAlexander » 07 Sep 2014, 10:00

I wouldn't call her craving victory either selfish or brave--without victory, she'd be without a faction. She was simply trying to survive. She had to work hard for that, as she didn't come from Dauntless and had no prior training. I understand her friends being jealous because of that, but I don't know if I would forgive them. Especially not the ones that made it into Dauntless anyway.

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Post by Hannah3111999 » 11 Sep 2014, 13:54

no, I think it is simply human nature to want to be the best and coming from abnegation, i don't think Tris could be so easily selfish. I think it was brave of her to envy her friend when she had so few, it could have left her alone and more vulnerable.

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Post by helenWall » 11 Sep 2014, 15:25

Brave, I think that she struggles with bravery feeling selfish because she was raised to live selflessly

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Post by cyndiha11 » 19 Sep 2014, 11:40

I think it's neither selfish nor brave. I think it's natural. At most times, all of us crave to be 'our best' in the things we choose to do. And if I were one of her friends, I would have been a little jealous too! I think that kind of reaction is also natural, which is why I also believe that if I were Tris I would forgive them. I mean, the ones who don't try to kill me.
“I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you are not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.” F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Post by hollirm » 20 Oct 2014, 07:23

In the circumstances that finds herself in, I don't think it's selfish to crave victory, it's survival. If I was in her shoes, I could find most of what her friends do, understandable, because they just want to survival as well. I also, don't really see their jealousy in a everyday type of way, either. I view it more as a wish or want to survive.

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Post by lindac1_98 » 23 Oct 2014, 17:31

I feel like it was brave of Tris to pick what she want over what others wanted her to pick, to be true to herself then others. Her friends should not be jealous of Tris because she choose to be who she wanted to be, because they did not chose to true to themselves. But I feel their jealousy was due to the fact that they did not feel they had the right or ability to choose what they wanted to choose. And, yes, Tris is right to forgive them as a true friend who believes in themselves should.

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