Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.
User avatar
Mallory Whitaker
Posts: 560
Joined: 14 Jul 2015, 15:16
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 98
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mallory-whitaker.html
Latest Review: Color Me American by Silvia Sama-Lambiv

Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post by Mallory Whitaker »

Craving victory means you're craving to be better than others or feel better about yourself. So yeah, I'd say that is selfish. I think everyone has the right to feel jealous, it's what you do with that jealousy that matters. They are all sixteen so I find it hard to hold them up to the same moral compass I would an adult. I think I would forgive them if I was Tris. I just wouldn't do anything to change it.
Yemurai
Posts: 68
Joined: 30 Jun 2017, 11:20
Bookshelf Size: 18
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-yemurai.html
Latest Review: Marrying a Playboy Billionaire by H M Irwing

Post by Yemurai »

I think it's bravery, she grew up in a faction that is timid and I think she was just trying to prove that she can be brave.
User avatar
Helen_Combe
Posts: 2493
Joined: 18 Feb 2018, 12:17
Favorite Book: The Martian
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 193
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-helen-combe.html
Latest Review: And The Trees Began To Move by Lisa Gammon Olson
Reading Device: B00M4L4MFC

Post by Helen_Combe »

No, it’s not selfish to crave victory, the punishment for failure in Dauntless is to be made factionless which is terrifying. I would do everything in my power to avoid it.
Their rule that a percentage must fail was silly anyway, if the intake that year was particularly good, some great people would be pointlessly thrown away.
A thesaurus is necessary, essential, indispensable, vital, crucial and fundamental.
User avatar
Crazybud
Posts: 33
Joined: 21 Apr 2018, 12:20
Favorite Author: Amy Zhang
Currently Reading: Shiver
Bookshelf Size: 1237
fav_author_id: 19621

Post by Crazybud »

Success is always appealing, victory endorses success. Initiation was a challenge, it was a test of strength, will and patience. I see no selfishness in craving victory during the initiation. For a person in Abnegation, it might be considered selfish, but for a Dauntless it is necessary to crave victory. It actually determined how much she actually fit the title of 'Dauntless'.

Also, it is natural to be jealous of higher competitors in name of competition. But while turning the jealousy to hatred is when you need to draw the limit. If I was in her place, I definitely would have forgiven my fellow competitors, taking it in the right spirit.
"I'd rather die on an adventure, than live standing still"
- Delilah Bard, A Darker Shade of Magic
sush_destiny
Posts: 326
Joined: 07 Mar 2019, 16:35
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 49
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-sush-destiny.html
Latest Review: Island Games by Caleb J. Boyer

Post by sush_destiny »

In every competition, jealousy is a normal emotion, even if the ones you are competing against are your friends. It is not selfish to crave victory.
jahagen
Posts: 112
Joined: 25 May 2018, 17:04
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 52
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-jahagen.html
Latest Review: Opaque by Calix Leigh-Reign

Post by jahagen »

I don't really think it's either selfish or brave, necessarily. Wanting to be victorious just seems to be very human. And of course her friends will be jealous, but given the circumstances and the consequences of not doing well, I'd say they were forgivable.
User avatar
dorebri2020
Posts: 256
Joined: 09 Jun 2019, 20:14
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 25
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-dorebri2020.html
Latest Review: Island Games by Caleb J. Boyer

Post by dorebri2020 »

I do not believe it was whole-heartedly selfish of Tris to crave victory. The stakes were high and she had to fight to survive. Also, I do not think it was right for her friends to react so negatively, but I would still have to forgive them as Tris did. After initiation was done, it was only fair that the tension faded.
"Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light."- J.K. Rowling. :D
User avatar
Kathleen Wolfe
Posts: 136
Joined: 05 Jun 2019, 05:15
Favorite Book: The Hour Game
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 99
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kathleen-wolfe.html
Latest Review: Killing Abel by Michael Tieman

Post by Kathleen Wolfe »

It is a human tendency to want to be the best at something. Some of the best inventors were mentored by it. But so is jealousy and envy so it is natural for them to feel that way since it is sometimes inescapable.
User avatar
rumik
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 10:37
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 32
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-rumik.html
Latest Review: Agartha by Jaylee Austin

Post by rumik »

Not selfish to crave victory at all in my opinion, it's just being competitive. Maybe a bit proud, but not selfish.
Atara Miles
Posts: 212
Joined: 22 Sep 2019, 17:26
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 16
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-atara-miles.html
Latest Review: Days of the Giants by RJ Petrella

Post by Atara Miles »

Can't it be both? Is it not the whole definition of selfish to want something for yourself, and brave to go about stating and acting out those desires? I understand Tris' friend's jealousy - they also want it for themselves and no matter who it is that's ranked above them, friend or otherwise, you can't help those feelings from keeping in? I would forgive them for it - if Tris is allowed to be selfish, they are allowed to be jealous.
User avatar
Balena
Posts: 53
Joined: 16 May 2020, 00:40
Currently Reading: 1984
Bookshelf Size: 12
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-balena.html
Latest Review: Black Beach by Olivia Rana

Post by Balena »

It was brave of her to crave victory. It is common human nature to crave victory and goodness (NOBODY wants to lose) and it is also human nature for her friends to be jealous of her. If I were Tris, I would forgive them, knowing this fact.
Barbara Larkin
Posts: 243
Joined: 03 Mar 2020, 22:04
Currently Reading: The Raven Boys
Bookshelf Size: 55
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-barbara-larkin.html
Latest Review: We are Voulhire: The Flesh of the Mind by Matthew Tysz

Post by Barbara Larkin »

Victory is selfish. When the other option is subjugation, however, it becomes the only option. Bravery is really in the fight to achieve victory, and not so much the desire.
User avatar
Edna016
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Jul 2020, 18:29
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 21

Post by Edna016 »

Well, when we look at her life before it wasn't really interesting was it ? So I would think that it was more just something "natural." With her competitive side and all , her personality and bravery got her in trouble a couple of times. I don't think it was necessarily selfish for her to crave bravery but I don't think it was too brave either.
User avatar
gelli_baranda
Posts: 162
Joined: 23 Feb 2020, 17:03
Favorite Book: Killing Abel
Currently Reading: Man Mission
Bookshelf Size: 34
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-gelli-baranda.html
Latest Review: We are Voulhire: A New Arrival under Great Skies by Matthew Tysz

Post by gelli_baranda »

She definitely isn't selfish to crave victory. You become factionless if you don't get to the ranks.
Happy reading,
Gelli xoxo
User avatar
readlikejess
Posts: 71
Joined: 28 Jun 2021, 18:16
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 22
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-readlikejess.html
Latest Review: Marc Marci by Larry G. Goldsmith

Post by readlikejess »

I think Tris is brave with how she managed to be first in rank. I believe friends who gets jealous shouldn’t be called as your friends. Tris managed to get on her rank.
Post Reply

Return to “"Divergent" by Veronica Roth”