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Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.

Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#46 by tracy19
» 26 May 2015, 14:28

Brave, because in order to achieve victory you need to be brave.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#47 by Mjelmer
» 28 May 2015, 02:14

I think having that crave for victory is natural. I think she was in survival mode!
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#48 by BColeman
» 13 Jun 2015, 13:15

I would say that it is a bit selfish, just because victory is kinda glorifying yourself.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#49 by meganxxcooper
» 30 Jun 2015, 08:17

They are both selfish for being craving the victory, but not in a bad way. She wants and feels the need for success. I think due to the society she was born in, she takes all the emotions to the max, due to a crave to feel like one of them.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#50 by Crimsonsky 749
» 19 Jul 2015, 12:14

I don't think I would forgive them. I mean they betrayed Tris badly and all because her score was higher than theirs. It's not her fault that they aren't as talented as her. As for if craving victory is selfish or brave of Tris, I think it's both. I mean you have to be brave to be able to strive for victory and then grab it as it becomes in reach. However you are also selfish because if you rise up in the ranks someone else will take the fall. Someone who normally wouldn't but does because you rose up. But in that case everyone would be selfish because everyone wants to win.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#51 by zjones99
» 19 Jul 2015, 15:52

I think it was very brave of Tris to crave victory. The initiation for Dauntless was hardcore and beyond tough, and if you were the top you better keep looking over your shoulder (Edward). In knowing that, Tris still wanted to try her best to be at the top and succeed in the Dauntless lifestyle. If I were her friend however I would be very jealous. I mean if she is above me, that means I am even closer to the bottom. Would I shove her into the chasm? No. But I would be kind of mad at her.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#52 by AlishaKennedy
» 02 Aug 2015, 20:38

It is brave for Tris to crave victory. It's her wanting something she's never been able to have, it's uncharted territory for her.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#53 by The Book Reviewer
» 23 Aug 2015, 16:27

It is not selfish to crave victory, it is selfish to crave attention. In Tris's case, victory was hardly about selfishness, in fact it was the opposite. That was pretty much the point of the book, in order for Tris to become ranked highly in initiation and not be expelled to the factionless, she had to be brave, which required selflessness.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#54 by courtney8847
» 08 Sep 2015, 21:46

I think that craving personal victory for one's own gain is more selfish than it is brave, as she is trying to help only herself.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#55 by RooneysReviews
» 11 Sep 2015, 15:59

Wanting victory isn't selfish; it's human. I've never played a game or sport with anyone who was planning to lose. If Tris was ready to resign to defeat, she would not have made it through the Dauntless initiation because that certainly required victory. There is probably an argument that those in Abnegation would not crave victory, but I would rebut that they would want victory and then suppress that desire as individually selfish and not express it. Simply hiding an emotion does not stop an individual from feeling it. In addition, that is likely why Dauntless is a more compatible fit for the character. That faction is the one that has the most normal human emotions, and the one readers can relate to the best.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#56 by VinuW
» 10 Nov 2015, 13:45

Though it did seem a bit selfish, I think Tris made the right decision. It's natural that her friends felt jealous when she ranked above them, and I also think she made the right decision forgiving them.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#57 by doyle5
» 31 Dec 2015, 01:35

If its selfish to crave victory then the entire human race is selfish. I believe, like with everything, it depends on the circumstances.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#58 by Taylor Razzani
» 20 Sep 2016, 20:55

I think when it came to Capture the Flag, it was a little selfish to want the victory on top of coming up with the plan. Sure she was entitled to it, but if Christina was her friend shouldn't she have wanted to share the wealth? I think Tris was in the right to be a little unnerved that her friends were acting strange towards her when she was on top. She wasn't doing anything to directly get them kicked out of Dauntless, half the time she really wasn't sure of herself and was surprised at the results. I'm sure the fear of being factionless played a part in their jealousy and I'm guessing that was part of the reason Tris was able to forgive them and remember that they were her friends.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#59 by godreaujea
» 30 Mar 2017, 16:36

I suppose it could be considered selfish, but it just shows how strong of a woman she is, and what an interesting character. Maybe this is just the feminist in me talking, but I am not sure if this same question would be asked if Tris was a male character, who a lot of time seek victory without it being questioned, almost as if it were an inherit male trait.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post Number:#60 by JFalco97
» 20 Apr 2017, 09:47

I think it's a bit of both. In most cases, no one ever wants to, or takes pride in losing. No one wants to be a part of the losing side. How many movies are there out there that revolve around that kind of thing? As it is though, I think it's also incredibly brave of her. To face her fears and to take that kind of weight on her shoulders. True it may be selfish but with the burden she bore, I think it becomes more than just that.
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