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"It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.

"It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#1 by Scott
» 03 Jun 2014, 13:22

The following discussion question was included in some copies of the June book of the month, Divergent by Veronica Roth.

Tris says about Candor, “It must require bravery to be honest all the time” (p. 62). Do you agree? Which do you think is a braver faction, Dauntless or Candor? Would you like to live in a society like Candor, where everyone tells the truth no matter how hard it is to hear?

-- 03 Jun 2014 01:24 pm --

One thing I find especially interesting about this connection between bravery and honesty is that the book also often connects the selflessness of Abnegation with bravery as well. On more than one occasion in the book it is asserted explicitly that the selfless thing to do and the bravest thing to do are often one in the same. In this sense, many of the 5 different values represented by each faction are showing to actually represent a single similar but more sophisticated ideal.
"That virtue we appreciate is as much ours as another's. We see so much only as we possess." - Henry David Thoreau

"Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco." Virgil, The Aeneid
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#2 by autumnmarie
» 03 Jun 2014, 15:36

This is very interesting. I too, thought about this concept while reading. I believe that Dauntless and Candor deals with two very different kinds of bravery. In Dauntless, we see a bravery that overcomes our physical vacillations, which you could argue takes a great deal of mental pluck as well. While, in Dauntless, the bravery they hold most important is quite focused on physical displays (jumping off trains, roofs etc.) it is something that one can, with great practice, hone into themselves. We can see this in Tris as she goes from scrawny Abnegation to muscular Dauntless zip lining off roofs. I also feel like this kind of bravery can be acquainted with a poor moral character, as seen through Peter, Molly and Drew. In Candor, the bravery they assume when telling the truth demands a good moral character as you must own up to all of your actions--it seems almost as if in Dauntless it is acceptable to be tainted as long as you have the physical brawn to hold your own in a fist fight. I guess it is subjective of me but I feel as if choosing to be moral is a braver thing to do as it makes you accountable of your actions and is in turn less reckless than Dauntless which seem to put little to no thought into what they do. I would say Dauntless is brave in the way that they can turn their adrenaline into a sort of strength and hitherto a sort of superiority, but as noted by Four, they still must hide their fears and do not actually overcome them. Therefore, Candor would be the braver faction to me. I personally am unsure if I were able to live in a faction like this as I am human and naturally imperfect, as are most. Also in a society that demands consistent accountability I feel like this would cause more harm than good to its citizens who are always going to step out of line at some point or another. It would be nice if everyone could treat each other well and be honest, though :)
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#3 by CrescentMoon
» 04 Jun 2014, 15:56

It's hard for me to decide which faction is "braver." I definitely do agree that it requires bravery to always be honest, but I also think it depends on the person who is speaking and what they feel. For somebody who feels bad about hurting other people's feelings but needs to tell the truth even if it hurts someone, it would require bravery to be honest. However, some people are bullies and enjoy taunting and being cruel to others. Peter for example, would have no qualms about putting people down. He is selfish and unkind so if he says something cruel, it wouldn't really be bravery on his part for being honest. I see Dauntless in a similar way. I do think that their physical activities require bravery, but some of them clearly also do it to show off. To me, bravery is more than just showing off your physical prowess. So in my opinion, I think sometimes dauntless is braver than candor and vice versa, but it depends on the person and their intentions.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#4 by Alexsandra
» 04 Jun 2014, 16:19

I believe that kind of honesty starts out as bravery but over time builds into arrogance because when you tell the truth all the time no matter who is hurts it make's a person have a feeling of superiority over others. So no I do not agree that it is bravery but arrogance and a feel of superiority on their part to do it at all cost, sometimes the truth is not worth the hurt for small things. I believe Dauntless is braver then Candor. They are like the Soldier's of today, They where the guards over the city and willing to die for it no matter how mislead they where. I would not like to live in a society like Candor that hurts others for the truth no matter the cost.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#5 by gali
» 04 Jun 2014, 23:16

I think it must require bravery to be honest all the time, but Candor took honesty to the extreme.
In the case of good books, the point is not to see how many of them you can get through, but rather how many can get through to you." (Mortimer J. Adler)
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#6 by LittleWilma
» 05 Jun 2014, 07:03

I think it does take a certain amount of bravery to be in Candor, especially in the beginning when you have to reveal your innermost secrets. I don't know of anyone that wants the world to know all there is to know, I know I don't.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#7 by Paliden
» 06 Jun 2014, 08:52

Hehe......I'm told that I am brutally honest so I feel like maybe I have some insight into this one. I don't think it requires bravery to be honest (most of the time). Granted, there are definitely situations where it requires a lot of bravery to be honest but in Candor's case, not so. I think Dauntless is the more brave of the two. But it is hard, cause you could easily say that a lot of Dauntless members are just thrill-junkies looking for the next high. Also, you could say that most Candor members are arrogant and proud. That's my opinion.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#8 by that_bek_girl
» 07 Jun 2014, 13:18

I do agree the it must take a lot of bravery to be honest all the time, and I personally feel that Cando is the braver faction to live in. As hard as I try to always be honest, there is a still small voice in my head sometimes that says "danger danger! " when I I am about to hurt someone's feelings or tell them something they don't want to hear. I think if it came down to it and I can choose I would rather not live in an environment where I had to be honest all the time, for the simple reason that I don't like to hurt people and I don't like to tell people things that are going to make someone happy.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#9 by GKCfan
» 08 Jun 2014, 00:14

I have this vague feeling that I've read this line– or a line very similar to it– long ago in another book. Does anybody have any idea what that other book might be? It's probably not these exact words, but the gist is the same.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#10 by musiclover182013
» 12 Jun 2014, 18:41

This is a very good question. I believe that both factions are brave in their own way. In our society, it is quite brave to tell the truth in general, let alone all the time. Everyone tells lies in their life so, yes it would be very brave, not to mention hard, to tell the truth all the time. To be honest, I'm not sure I would really want to live in a society where everyone tells the truth no matter what the outcome. A lot of people would be hurt, but at the same time, maybe crime would be brought down. Dauntless shows bravery in a different way. Bravery comes from being risky. The Dauntless are brave in the face of danger.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#11 by Little House
» 24 Jun 2014, 08:57

Being honest with someone when you know that they won't like what you have to say does require a good bit of bravery, but saying what is true just because it is true even though you know it will hurt someone is not brave it is just mean. The people of Candor made no distinction between the two.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#12 by strikerking101
» 24 Jun 2014, 09:39

yes that is very true

-- 24 Jun 2014, 10:41 --

but if you take the divergent it tells you what faction you are
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#13 by Heather
» 30 Jun 2014, 21:42

I think it definitely requires bravery to be honest all the time. Not as much bravery as jumping off a moving train onto a building, however. Dauntless requires more courage.

Also, for the people of Candor, it wouldn't require bravery so much because it is all they've ever known, if they were born into the faction. And for faction transfers, it wouldn't be as hard either, because it must come to them naturally for them to have chosen it.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#14 by Tanafee
» 11 Jul 2014, 16:44

True- it takes bravery to be truthful and admit to ones mistakes.
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Re: "It must require bravery to be honest all the time"

Post Number:#15 by RussetDivinity
» 11 Jul 2014, 17:17

gali wrote:I think it must require bravery to be honest all the time, but Candor took honesty to the extreme.


I this was one of the points of the book, that each faction took itself to whatever extreme it could be. Dauntless took bravery to the extreme by becoming fearless rather than courageous; Abnegation isn't so much selfless as self-denying; Amity is peaceful even if keeping the peace requires drugging the population; Erudite prizes knowledge over all else; Candor took honesty so far that they didn't even recognize that small lies can be harmless or even helpful.

I think Dauntless is the braver of the two, simply because sometimes telling the truth can be a way of giving in. If the truth would harm someone, then it can be braver to lie. If I had to choose one of these two, I would probably choose Dauntless, because I'm a fiction writer and an actor by nature; I couldn't be truthful all the time. My being is set up around lies.
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