What do you make of "Faction Before Blood"?

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.
Post Reply
User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 4068
Joined: 31 Jul 2006, 23:00
Favorite Author: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
Currently Reading: The Unbound Soul
Bookshelf Size: 340
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-scott.html
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU
Publishing Contest Votes: 960
fav_author_id: 248825

What do you make of "Faction Before Blood"?

Post by Scott »

The following discussion question was included in some copies of the June book of the month, Divergent by Veronica Roth.

How does the idea of “faction before blood” come into play throughout the book? Do you think this idea has a place in today’s society, or is it contrary to what most people believe? In our society, what ideas and beliefs are people loyal to in the way Tris’s society is loyal to the concept of the factions?
"That virtue we appreciate is as much ours as another's. We see so much only as we possess." - Henry David Thoreau

"Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco." Virgil, The Aeneid
User avatar
gali
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 53652
Joined: 22 Oct 2013, 07:12
Favorite Author: Agatha Christie
Currently Reading: The Suite Life
Bookshelf Size: 2287
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-gali.html
Reading Device: B00I15SB16
Publishing Contest Votes: 0
fav_author_id: 2484

Post by gali »

I think that family comes first and it is wrong to force one to forgo all connections with the family. This idea does not play out in our society and rightly so. I believe that our family comes before everything. Those ideas fit fascist societies who put the state above the people and trample human rights.
A retired Admin/Mod

Pronouns: She/Her

"In the case of good books, the point is not to see how many of them you can get through, but rather how many can get through to you." (Mortimer J. Adler)
User avatar
LittleWilma
Posts: 247
Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 02:10
Favorite Author: Jeff Melton
Favorite Book: Dark Destiny
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-littlewilma.html

Post by LittleWilma »

In my opinion, God should come first and family second and would certainly put both before anything else and would find it difficult to do otherwise. In the book, it is ingrained in the kids from the time they are born, so although it is still difficult to leave the family behind when they choose another faction, they expect it. In the Divergent society, I can see how it is necessary in order to keep the factions separate.
"I like liquor — its taste and its effects — and that is just the reason why I never drink it."
-Stonewall Jackson
User avatar
Paliden
Posts: 454
Joined: 17 Sep 2013, 15:38
Currently Reading: White Cargo
Bookshelf Size: 1028
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-paliden.html
Latest Review: "Justified Anger" by Jennifer Colne

Post by Paliden »

I agree. God first, family second. But then how do we define family? I think that is the question of "Faction before Blood". They are saying that if you belong in that faction, then you can't relate to your family members like you can to the other faction members. I know that when you go through trials and difficult circumstances (i.e. training), you form a bond with those people that in a way makes them family. I think the military is a good example of this in our day and age. You are trained that your brothers-in-arms are everything. It is ingrained into your core. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. So I understand both sides of it, I guess.
Latest Review: "Justified Anger" by Jennifer Colne
Tianarenee3
Posts: 96
Joined: 30 Apr 2014, 15:24
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-tianarenee3.html

Post by Tianarenee3 »

I actually took this in a more worldly way than just family versus work; I found connections between how the political system in America works among its politicians and understand why the Divergent series, along with the Hunger Games, and any other dystopian novels/series, why some books are banned and some are controversial in regards to world leaders. Faction before blood sounds like a personal sacrifice one must make in order to stay safe among the rest of the city realms, and if not obeyed, the leaders see you as a risk to society, a threat they need to take out. in this way, i distinguish a message from Veronica Roth that enforces her caution and her dignity to her readers everywhere.
User avatar
musiclover182013
Posts: 46
Joined: 19 May 2014, 19:58
Favorite Author: Nicholas Sparks
Favorite Book: Too many to name
Currently Reading: The Bone Season
Bookshelf Size: 31
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-musiclover182013.html
Latest Review: American River: Tributaries by Mallory M. O'Connor
fav_author_id: 2460

Post by musiclover182013 »

I believe that "Fanction Before Blood" can be taken either way. In today's society, I find this to be passion before family. Now, in some people, they do in fact believe that what they are passionate about takes priority over family. In my case, I find family to be of more importance although my passion does come a close second. In Divergent, the statement "Fanction Before Blood" makes more sense seeing as if you choose to switch factions, you choose to leave your family. If you are willing to make that choice, you should be able to deal with the consequences (I say that, but I probably wouldn't be able to solely dedicate myself to either choice myself). Luckily, we don't have to make such a hard decision because I, like many in the book, would struggle a bit.
CrescentMoon
Posts: 1319
Joined: 08 May 2014, 22:50
Currently Reading: Superhighway
Bookshelf Size: 87
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-crescentmoon.html
Latest Review: "Letorian Descendants- Casey Blane Series (Book 1)" by Jodi Ann Fahey

Post by CrescentMoon »

I really don't like this idea of faction before blood. In my opinion, it's something that a tyrannical government would want its citizens to believe in, to give up their family and become loyal to them. Family ties usually are supposed to be very strong, and I don't know many people who wouldn't do anything for their family. That is a threat to the government so I feel like the message of faction before blood is a way to brainwash people into believing that their loyalty needs to be to the factions and society at all times, that way they are easier to manipulate and control.
Latest Review: "Letorian Descendants- Casey Blane Series (Book 1)" by Jodi Ann Fahey
User avatar
H0LD0Nthere
Posts: 445
Joined: 18 Jan 2014, 23:04
Favorite Book: Til We Have Faces by C. S. Lewis
Bookshelf Size: 52
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-h0ld0nthere.html
Latest Review: "Adventures in space & fiction fantasy" by Robin G Howard

Post by H0LD0Nthere »

"Faction Before Blood" strikes me as a purist, idealistic slogan, coming out of a philosophy that puts ideas before natural social ties and feelings. It sounds very, very familiar to me. I think we are often urged to set aside our "traditional" ideas and sign on to some new, counter-intuitive philosophy, because by so doing we can save the world. We have learned from the hard sciences that the facts are often counter-intuitive, and we take that to mean that our social feelings tell us nothing, and that we should never listen to them.

And, I don't know whether this is part of the same phenomenon, but in modern America, I would say our concepts of loyalty to family are very basic, almost nonexistent. For example, parents are supposed to have no say in who their son or daughter marries. They are supposed to give teenagers "privacy" even about things that could potentially ruin their lives. On the other end of the spectrum, Mom and Dad are supposed to be able to make their own decisions about who they date, and "have their own lives" regardless of the effect it might have upon their kids.

So obviously, I am not a big fan of Faction Before Blood. That said, I realize there are going to be times when we need to put a principle, or someone who is non-family, ahead of family. "Blood Before Faction" would not be a practical slogan either. Both Faction and Blood are just too limited to be made the be-all and end-all that always trumps everything else. To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, the worst thing we can do is pick just one value out of the whole moral framework, and make that the one thing to which everything else must bow.
Latest Review: "Adventures in space & fiction fantasy" by Robin G Howard
User avatar
aluric
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 Jun 2014, 11:20
Bookshelf Size: 0

Post by aluric »

"Faction Before Blood" is something you see throughout the world today. Our factions are based on religion, political philosphy, education level, place of birth, occupation, or even favorite sports team. It's natural to want to be with people that have the same beliefs and values as you do but this can be taken to extremes. On a personal level it could mean loosing contact with your family because you choose not to a follow their religion or the career path they think you should. On a larger level it splits nations and causes wars.
User avatar
stoppoppingtheP
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 902
Joined: 14 May 2014, 09:59
Favorite Author: Adriana Trigiani
Favorite Book: The Hand of Fatima
Currently Reading: High Low In-Between
Bookshelf Size: 162
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-stoppoppingthep.html
Latest Review: If I Only Knew by Kim Simmons
fav_author_id: 8071

Post by stoppoppingtheP »

I do not agree with 'faction before blood', or indeed even 'blood before faction'. In either of these situations you are being told to choose a group and agree with the decisions of a group no matter what those decisions are.

I would rather choose "truth before anything else", if there is such a category.

“there have been so many times
i have seen a man wanting to weep
but
instead
beat his heart until it was unconscious.

-masculine”


― Nayyirah Waheed
ttuso22
Posts: 265
Joined: 23 May 2014, 15:50
Favorite Author: J.K. Rowling
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 64
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-ttuso22.html
Latest Review: The Immigrant's Lament by Mois benarroch
fav_author_id: 1778

Post by ttuso22 »

I think the idea of faction before blood is an interesting concept. Obviously in our world we can't understand what it means to be apart of a faction like the ones in this dystopia and thus can't understand the bonds that the characters developed, but I think we develop similar relationships with friends especially when we are away from our families. Still others remain closer to their families than friends. I prefer to have blood before faction because that is a group that always shares something common with you whereas friend come and go and often change over time.
If there’s a book you really want to read but it hasn’t been written yet, then you must write it. ~Toni Morrison
User avatar
sybil1reader
Posts: 224
Joined: 15 Jun 2013, 16:44
Favorite Author: All crime authors
Favorite Book: Too Many to name
Currently Reading: CJ Lyons
Bookshelf Size: 26
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-sybil1reader.html
Latest Review: "Deadly Secrets" by Robert Boris Riskin

Post by sybil1reader »

I believe that family comes first. How can you give up your family just because you pick a different faction than you were raised? I know that Tres' mother was Dauntless, but I choose to believe that she would have visited on family day even if she had not been. I also think that it put pressure on some when it came time to choose because they did not want to hurt their parents.
Latest Review: "Deadly Secrets" by Robert Boris Riskin
User avatar
soulessginger
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Jun 2014, 13:01
Bookshelf Size: 0

Post by soulessginger »

It is absolutely contrary & applicable to what most people believe in our society today.
"Faction before blood" is such a fuzzy concept as so many others who've posted before me have concluded. How do we define blood? Most will use the term "family" as the definition of blood, but then we're forced to answer the question on how to define family.

Some may take the literal interpretation - those individuals who share genetic traits with each other - but then you could isolate common elements (such as marriage) in that definition. More commonly, from where I come from at least, family is defined by those individuals who maintain a presence in our lives enough to influence our decisions and behaviors. While many will advocate that blood runs thicker than water, we as humans should readily admit that our initial desire is to gravitate towards like minded individuals (like the book club for example!). We find solace in being surrounded by people who understand our desires, thoughts, goals, joys, etc. Often times, those people are individuals you meet along the path of life - and its those people who you will often find yourself describing as being as close as a "<insert family member title here>."

Much like in the case of this book, the line between faction and blood becomes blurred. Roth accurately describes the torment we experience when trying to find the common ground between those who raised you and those who are able to help you continue your path of success. It's an initial struggle, one that each and every day we are challenged to overcome in society, but one nonetheless we can overcome. I don't think Roth meant that she had to turn her back for once and all on her mother & father. She needed to embrace the idea of the Dauntless in order to succeed in her chosen path, which required her to temporarily set aside the teachings of the Abnegation that she grew up with. I think most of us can identify with Tris as we watch her struggle with the guilt and grief she faces each day in her decision and the struggle to prepare for the war that is threatening her and everyone she loves.

Just as a side thought if we were to open the newspaper or turn on the news, we're bombarded with evidence every day that factions do indeed exist in this world!
User avatar
Heather
Posts: 237
Joined: 12 Jun 2013, 19:41
Favorite Author: Diana Gabaldon
Favorite Book: Outlander series
Bookshelf Size: 22
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-heather.html
Latest Review: "Differences" by Cristina Monro
fav_author_id: 2373

Post by Heather »

I believe family should come first. And in the end, family is what Tris cared about (Tobias included, as he could potentially be who she creates her own family with).
Latest Review: "Differences" by Cristina Monro
User avatar
emilywagner
Posts: 8
Joined: 09 Jul 2014, 11:30
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-emilywagner.html

Post by emilywagner »

Personally, my family comes before everything else I absolutely could not imagine having to abandon them forever. I really appreciated Tris's dedication to her family as well, despite the societal rules. It seemed representative of the lengths most of the people I know would go to protect and be with their families.

I must say though the idea of faction before blood is not all that foreign either. Once many people are kicked out of the nest you will see them select new ways of life and new people who may treat them better than their biological family. In a way their new faction becomes their new "blood" so it is an odd concept to think about.
Post Reply

Return to “"Divergent" by Veronica Roth”