What is your Motivation?
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- LiteratureJunkie
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Re: What is your Motivation?
- kaz_mwangala
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- moderntimes
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But it's also essential, I think, that your writing be appreciated by others. Sometimes friends or relatives, sometimes the general reading public who like what you write.
- Heidi M Simone
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I agree with you, moderntimes, it's important that your writing be appreciated by others. I do feel support by those who know about my writing, but no one has had the chance to read my story since I haven't finished a draft yet! Hopefully, when I am done, there will be those who fully appreciate the story.
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- moderntimes
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- Heidi M Simone
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My plan is to try and get it published at some point. The contest that Scott has for that publishing deal is what got me back into writing, so now I'm planning on going all the way with the contest or not. Here's hoping for the best!
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- moderntimes
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The way I figure it, I'm a bit more down the road than many here, having 3 novels professionally purchased and published, and so I hope that I can help others to find their own route to publication. Hey, if I can do it, anyone can.
- Heidi M Simone
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- moderntimes
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What I am eager to talk about to newbie writers is that although self publishing is pushed a lot in this forum, and it's fine, it's a little more fun if a publisher does the thing for you, and pays you royalties, and you pay zero.
My recommendations is to first at least TRY to get your book (or stories) sold professionally. All it "costs" is a bit of time going thru the publisher lists, and then if this is unsuccessful, go to self publishing.
- Heidi M Simone
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Thank you for the recommendation. It would be nice to have someone publish my book for me when it's ready, so I'll aim for that first like you said.
Did you find it challenging to find someone to publish your books? How long would you say it took for you to get a publishing deal?
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- moderntimes
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This website has a terrific list of publishers and agents. It warns about scams and fakes and also lists the types of book each publisher is looking for.
I created a nice query letter and then worked my way down the list. It took me a couple months because I was doing other things in that time. What you do is go to the website of each agent or publisher. Some publishers don't accept straight submissions and only go thru agents. Some agents have their list full. And so on.
Each has a specific request for what to send them. Some want 1 chapter, some want 3, some want the first 50 pages, and you must tailor your submissions exactly for the best success. What your query letter should say, in 1 page, about the book, its length, genre, and such, and what's very important, what makes your book unique so that it will attract attention from the publisher, and later, the readers who will buy the book.
You'll get lots of TBNTs (thanks but no thanks) but keep plugging away, submitting. Understand that it only takes one acceptance.
What will happen is that one or two or three will ask for more. This is good sign. If the publisher reads the 1 chapter and thinks, "Let's see the whole book" this is a positive sign. Of course, after reading the whole book, they may then say no thanks, but those are the breaks.
Interestingly enough, I got 3 separate "Yes" from different publishers in the same week. I of course had accepted the first offer. It's from a small "boutique" publisher that mostly does genre books -- romance, fantasy, mystery, SF, etc. I'd been sending my 3rd and newest novel out for evaluation, and the publisher liked the book so much that they offered me a contract with the first 2 novels, too.
The contract was a standard one, which offers a certain amount for advance, and royalty percents for print and e-book publishing. These contracts are pretty standard but anyone should get an attorney's approval before signing ANY contract. Mine was standard "boilerplate" and offers me a very nice payout. And being a legitimate publisher, not a "vanity" publisher or subsidy publisher (where you pay a certain amount) I was determined to find a straightforward standard publisher. So the author pays zero, zip, nada. The publisher pays everything. I was offered a nice cover art, which I approved. The manuscript was sent to the editors, who made zero changes, and we both found a few small mechanical typos which were fixed. The print versions are handsome and well finished. And the Kindle versions are fine too. The publisher has treated me fairly and I'm very satisfied with their support.
Being a very small publisher, they don't have a huge advertising budget and so the end result is that my book sales are small for now. I am working to publicize my book, and so is the publisher. Good reviews help, as you can understand. Fact being, the sales are about what you might expect for a self-published book, but the big difference is that I paid nothing. ANY publisher who charges you a fee isn't a legit publisher, unless they clearly tell you up front that they are a subsidy (vanity) publisher. There are plenty of legit subsidy publishers who will charge you a fair fee to publish you book.
My recommendation is this: At least TRY to find a conventional publisher first, then if you cannot, go ahead and self publish. You never know till you try.
- aparsons
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- moderntimes
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I don't have a PhD but I do have an MS in chemistry. I wrote scientific and engineering papers, reports, and tech articles and specs for maybe 40 years. I wrote an entire set of manuals for a design workstation.
I think that my tech background has helped my writing because it allows me the discipline needed, and also I am able to review and edit my writing with a fine toothed comb, searching diligently for the smallest errors, as is required in scientific and technical writing.
I've never heard the Anthony story but I kinda think it's stretching the truth somewhere. If you're already a successful author, ala Stevie King, yeah, as he's joked, they'd publish his grocery list.
But for all other writers, you and I and the vast majority, you must first finish the story or novel or whatever first. No publisher will ever "bet on the come" and acquire an unfinished manuscript from anyone but a famous and already established writer.
So yeah, first finish the book. Then re-read it and revise it and tweak it till it's as shiny and pert and alive as you can make it. It's a chore but it's part of the writing process --- you can find a couple of threads here in this section about finishing and revising and these threads have some good advice.
Regarding finishing, I started a few years ago by taking my love for mysteries, especially private eye novels, and thought that I'd try to write a short story. This was because I'd told myself that there was no way I could write a whole novel. Well, the story grew and grew and got longer and one day I realized that I was writing the damn novel! Now I've finished 3 of them, about a quarter million words, and I'm busy on the 4th.
You will always find dry periods. My suggestion is to use those times for revision. Let's say you've written chapters 1-20. You might unstick yourself by going back a ways, to chapter 16, and revising and tweaking those chapters 16-20. For me, this often gives me the impetus to proceed into the new chapters. So the revision process not only fixes small glitches in what I've already written, but it provides me an incentive to keep writing more new stuff.
You say you've got a long story. Let's say it's novella length maybe. You may have actually finished the story without knowing it. That is, you might be a bit reluctant to turn it loose and start a new story. You're the only one who can make that decision. Maybe this long story is asking for it to be continued forward into a full novel? I dunno.
Back to the Anthony thing, maybe he was asked to write stories on a particular theme but that's very rare, almost unheard of. Either the story you or I write is good enough or it's not. If you've written a nice fantasy romance and have submitted it to fantasy publishers, it can be rejected for several reasons. Maybe it's just not quite good enough. Or maybe it's good but it's exactly the same theme and story lines of 100 other stories.
Regardless of the genre, a story or novel should have something unique which attracts the editor's attention but is still within the genre.
An example about my own novels. I wanted to write a private eye story but not the old fashioned stereotypical tough-guy private eye with the pint of rye in his hip pocket and fists of steel. Nor did I want to create a fanciful superhero detective like a James Bond.
So I made my PI a different guy. He's highly educated, very smart, was raised in a good family, went to the best schools, graduated cum laude. He's not a tough guy but is in a tough occupation. So the juxtaposition is that we've got an upscale PI who's often dumped into horrific experiences, and the conflict he faces is how he deals with this. In this way I make him unique. He's not a hero but a genuine anti-hero. And of course the stories are engaging too, tricky and challenging crimes to solve and so on.
Point being, I stayed within the private eye genre, modern day American type, but within this genre I defined a slightly different protagonist. And this apparently has worked for me. Therefore I might suggest to anyone writing genre fiction, whether mystery or fantasy or romance, to tweak the envelope a bit without busting thru.
By the way, I don't have any writers in my family either. My Dad instilled in me a love of literature and reading, and my Mom supported my constant library trips as a kid, so I was lucky. I've written all my life besides school and day jobs. I've strung for the AP and a couple of major daily newspapers, written sports car racing articles, articles on gun use and safety, essays on various things, and have been lucky to get published here and there. It's a lifelong love.
So go for it, be your most vigorous critic, and hone your skills. Also don't be afraid to post passages of your stories in progress and ask for feedback -- you can post in the writer's section on short stories.
- Heidi M Simone
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I did not know the term "vanity" publisher before, but it's really good to know the difference between that and a standard publisher. I'll also have to work on a query letter once I'm ready. You have made me extremely eager and excited to keep going! Thank you so much, moderntimes!
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- moderntimes
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Understand, there are several legit "vanity" (subsidy) publishers who will charge a fair price to publish your book. This would include a thorough proofread by a professional proofreader, cover art per your specs, nice binding for the paperback version, and posting it to Amazon for you in both paperback (the larger "trade paperback" not pocketbook format) and Kindle.
Having this done for a typical novel length text may cost about $600-$800 depending. This is a fair price to pay for a complete, professional publishing job.
Others may decide to do it yourself. Amazon has a publishing packaging software system and in this package, new writers can pay for a proofread separately and do the rest of the packaging themselves. I've never investigated this but there are many here who've used this software to publish their own Amazon books and it seems to work just fine.
Regardless, before you sign a contract with any publisher or agency, consult its listing on the site "preditors and editors" to ensure that the firm you are working with isn't a scam.
How do some of these dishonest publishers scam you? Continual editing is one of them. You'll contact this publisher (a scam company) and they'll say, "Story looks great! Send us the full manuscript!" and so you duly email them the MS-Word of your book. Then it starts... They say, "Oh, the story is fine but your book needs a lot of editing and revision. There's no way we can accept your book for (free) publishing in its present form."
But they just happen to know an editing group who does superb work. And they send you the referral, and you contact them, and they say, $140 or $165 and this seems fine, so you email your book to them, and they change a lot of stuff, and you're now happy but you don't like the results, but you resubmit and they say, "Well, it's a lot better but still not acceptable" and they refer you to another more expert editing service, and you go back and forth, paying for each edit, and getting rejected, and another edit, and finally the publisher tells you "no thanks".
When in truth, the fake publisher and the editing services they recommend are the same damn people, working via different websites but they are in cahoots. They bleed overeager but naive writers as much as they can.
Now a real, authentic publisher will of course want to edit your book. This is required. There are 3 general types of editing:
1. Copy edit: Mechanical errors, typos, spelling, and continuity errors (someone with red hair changes to blonde, etc), and also legal problems with quoting copyright material.
2. Line edit: Reviews content for quality of writing, looks for overused words or phrases, style that can be improved, etc.
3. General edit: Top of the line review of the entire content for style and rhythm, how the story can be improved, etc.
Now most times, your book first receives edit types 1 & 2 combined. A pro proofreader will read thru your book and fix all the typos and mechanical errors, and send it back to you for approval. They also check for legal issues, and must vet your book. Things such as defaming a real person or a real restaurant or real store which might invite a lawsuit. Things like that.
Then the senior editor will read your book for the #3 edit, making suggestions for the book's themes and general style.
But the difference is this: the book will have already been accepted by the publisher first. They won't dangle a contract "If you get it fixed better" but will instead sign you to the contract first, and then the editing begins.
And I'll say this firmly. In all my writing experience, I have NEVER been forced to change anything. All the changes (except actual typos and misspellings and grammatical errors -- those must be changed) are voluntary by the author. The editor recommends changes and usually they're good suggestions. They know what sells and what doesn't.
Also understand that there are plenty of new writers who self publish and like this. Fine. All I'm saying is that the common belief often expressed here that publishers push you around and take control out of your hands and are greedy is simply not true. Their objective is a good finished "product" which will sell lots of copies, making them money and you money both.
Bottom like, I recommend that everyone who's writing a "real" book or short stories at least write toward the objective of professional publishing, to one day see your novel on the shelf at Barnes & Noble and so on. Even if they end up self publishing, the focus toward professionalism is important.
I can also ensure you this. Seeing your name on the byline of a magazine article or story, or more fun, on the spine of your novel sitting on the shelf of the local bookstore is amazing!
Anyway, good luck with your writing.