Official Review: God Versus The Idea of God

[geoffrey ngoima]

Excellent review. I definitely think that with the evolution of science it's becoming more difficult people for to believe in anything they can't see. I'm not quite sure this book is for me because I'm still trying to connect with my Christian faith and this sounds like it'll make me more objective than I already am There are some things I don't think I'll ever understand and you brought it up in your review. How can we be evil if we're made in the image of God? And if Jesus and God aren't the same why do we worship Jesus?

You know what, I just might read this book. It seems I'm not the only one questioning these things.

Why would God not destroy the devil instead of leaving him to run a rampage on Earth? I mean, if we're to take Revelations and the story of Noah's arc into consideration then the almighty obviously has no qualms about destroying the wicked

I'm rambling...forgive me. Okay, maybe it isn't such a good idea to read this book. I'm indecisive.

Actually it's admirable, it's good to question, I've done it, still do, but your heart must be in the right place.

My two cents on this? You have to seek tHe truth and not just some principle that would make one's way of living convenient for one. Look, evil had to be there because Choice was there. For you to choose there must be options, bad or good; otherwise, we would have been robots. Evil is just a tool used by God to perpetuate choice, and it is us that perpetuate evil (money/power is the root of all evil). If evil is too much it has to be destroyed, obviously, otherwise, the world would be too corrupt to be salvaged (but with God nothing's impossible, so.) About Jesus, this is what I told someone in this very thread "@Kelebogile... I didn't know that, ...though I've always thought that we (humans) are three in one, i.e., body, soul and Spirit; & seeing as we're created in God's image, God's also 3 in 1; Body (Jesus), Soul (The Father), and Spirit (The Holy Ghost); 1 and the same, just as you are one and the same. Just my thoughts, I'd like to know your thoughts... ' "

My only doubt about the Bible is the hell phenomenon. I don't see the need to subject people to eternal damnation for things they did in 10 or 20 or 50 or even 150 years in this cruel world. The word eternal mixed with damnation is just a little too cruel for any reason and for whoever is administering the judgment, even God. I always felt that tidbits about the Bible were just altered/added by the Roman or whoever was powerful enough to do it. Even the Bible itself says it can be altered and pronounces judgment on anyone who would. & what is the age limit of going to hell, anyway? 12? 15? 18? I just find it hard to see kids burning in hell. Forever!

-- 02 Oct 2017, 11:57 --

The hell scriptures are just interpreted wrongly, you'd have to have a bigger picture of the Bible message to get it...
When you really think about it (and from the evidence of countless scripture verses like Romans 6:23 (NIV) For the wages of sin is death [not eternal damnation], but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord." that discount eternal damnation. There's hell and it's eternal fires but no eternal damnation, well, at least for humans, according to my (and I believe the correct) Bible interpretation.

Are you by any chance a Jehovah's Witness? I had a close friend once who introduced me to an alternative concept of Hell which is quite similar to what you've stated. I strongly believe that religion is a political tool and that Hell was an actual Sulphur mine located in medieval Palestine (the burning sulphur and brimstone bit). Nice review Geoffrey.

Oh, no, I disagree with a lot that the Jehova Witness say,.. My argument is quite close to Adventist's views,
(("Jehovah's [notice spelling] Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists have a lot in common. Ultimately they spring from mid-19th-century Millerism, the Adventists directly and the Witnesses more indirectly. Miller had calculated that Jesus would return in 1844, which didn't happen, but the Seventh-Day Adventists that emerged with Ellen White as their "prophetess" continued to assume that the year was somehow prophetically significant; indeed they still do."))
My argument is quite common sense; even an earthly father who isn't nearly as loving ad the Heavenly Father wouldn't even think of subjecting his son to an eternal punishment,... Mathew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." The hidden message here is souls will be destroyed in hell.
& my friend, hell isn't located anywhere right now, there's no scriptural evidence of that, the devil is on earth roaming across it ... Job 1:7 "The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." He isn't in charge like some folklores explain and lie to us. Hell will be on earth (the whole of it) when Christ will come back and the glory of his brightness will burn them... 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:.." That's my interpretation today... About the "eternal" fires, the Bible uses that word in various instances (check them out with a Bible app) but it doesn't mean "eternal" like we know it, it just means the work/purpose/aftermath of the fire will be eternal.

[juliusotinyo]

Geoff,
I really should have reviewed this book. I love this kind of topics. Btw I think Robert's interpretation of Biblical hell is from some text...Read it a while back when I was in university (can't remember the name)

There was even a documentary connecting the concept of hell with the Egyptian viewpoint... I didn't know this much on Joseph Miller. At least you've given me something to go over this evening.

[geoffrey ngoima]

Geoff,
I really should have reviewed this book. I love this kind of topics. Btw I think Robert's interpretation of Biblical hell is from some text...Read it a while back when I was in university (can't remember the name)

There was even a documentary connecting the concept of hell with the Egyptian viewpoint... I didn't know this much on Joseph Miller. At least you've given me something to go over this evening.

"Hell was an actual Sulphur mine located in medieval Palestine (the burning sulfur and brimstone bit)' This statement is a bit ambiguous I'm in the process of researching it, it looks interesting. I've heard rumors of such a mine, or sth like it. About people digging too deep and demons escaping! Oh, man, tell me it's not that, haha. There was even a taped record of a certain mine I heard several years ago of people who were supposedly in hell screaming with unimaginable pain. The tape is actually of people screaming their heads off. I don't know, but I didn't believe it; when Lazarus dies Jesus said he was sleeping, not in hell or heaven, but then again time is only relative to humans, which brings us to the hell phenomenon... Let me look up what Robert said.

[juliusotinyo]

What is meant by that is that Biblical hell ain't real. It was an Egyptian rip-off and based on an actual dreaded place in the outskirts of Jerusalem.

Open sulphur mines are corrosive and not where you would want to be. I am guessing you've​ not been to lake Bogoria or near Ol Karia in Kenya?

It's​ said that back then, the undesirables and the dead would be thrown there. It became a dump before the concept changed to describe hell.

[geoffrey ngoima]

What is meant by that is that Biblical hell ain't real. It was an Egyptian rip-off and based on an actual dreaded place in the outskirts of Jerusalem.

Open sulphur mines are corrosive and not where you would want to be. I am guessing you've not been to lake Bogoria or near Ol Karia in Kenya?

It's​ said that back then, the undesirables and the dead would be thrown there. It became a dump before the concept changed to describe hell.

The Israelites too had a valley called Gehenna (we get our Swahili name Jehenamu (hell) from there) where they'd throw away " the undesirables and the dead..."
I've never been to those place, I'm terribly untravelled, never went on even 1 trip in high/primary school, maybe someday.

[juliusotinyo]

What is meant by that is that Biblical hell ain't real. It was an Egyptian rip-off and based on an actual dreaded place in the outskirts of Jerusalem.

Open sulphur mines are corrosive and not where you would want to be. I am guessing you've not been to lake Bogoria or near Ol Karia in Kenya?

It's​ said that back then, the undesirables and the dead would be thrown there. It became a dump before the concept changed to describe hell.

The Israelites too had a valley called Gehenna (we get our Swahili name Jehenamu (hell) from there) where they'd throw away " the undesirables and the dead..."
I've never been to those place, I'm terribly untravelled, never went on even 1 trip in high/primary school, maybe someday.

You are a true kindred spirit, Geoff. Yeah, it's Gehenna, the sulphur mine. The present day valley has a group of gabiologists but even the exact location is controversial.

I am well traveled ? nearing 50 countries.

[geoffrey ngoima]

What is meant by that is that Biblical hell ain't real. It was an Egyptian rip-off and based on an actual dreaded place in the outskirts of Jerusalem.

Open sulphur mines are corrosive and not where you would want to be. I am guessing you've not been to lake Bogoria or near Ol Karia in Kenya?

It's said that back then, the undesirables and the dead would be thrown there. It became a dump before the concept changed to describe hell.

The Israelites too had a valley called Gehenna (we get our Swahili name Jehenamu (hell) from there) where they'd throw away " the undesirables and the dead..."
I've never been to those place, I'm terribly untravelled, never went on even 1 trip in high/primary school, maybe someday.

You are a true kindred spirit, Geoff. Yeah, it's Gehenna, the sulphur mine. The present day valley has a group of gabiologists but even the exact location is controversial.

I am well traveled ? nearing 50 countries.

50 countries! Man, I have to get my travel on.

[sj_robert]

Geoff,
I really should have reviewed this book. I love this kind of topics. Btw I think Robert's interpretation of Biblical hell is from some text...Read it a while back when I was in university (can't remember the name)

There was even a documentary connecting the concept of hell with the Egyptian viewpoint... I didn't know this much on Joseph Miller. At least you've given me something to go over this evening.

"Hell was an actual Sulphur mine located in medieval Palestine (the burning sulfur and brimstone bit)' This statement is a bit ambiguous I'm in the process of researching it, it looks interesting. I've heard rumors of such a mine, or sth like it. About people digging too deep and demons escaping! Oh, man, tell me it's not that, haha. There was even a taped record of a certain mine I heard several years ago of people who were supposedly in hell screaming with unimaginable pain. The tape is actually of people screaming their heads off. I don't know, but I didn't believe it; when Lazarus dies Jesus said he was sleeping, not in hell or heaven, but then again time is only relative to humans, which brings us to the hell phenomenon... Let me look up what Robert said.

I think the text was a Discovery channel exclusive about 8 years ago. Some archaeologists and researchers were looking into the Gehenna valley question.

[Alix haven]

Hello i am new here am not understand how to read book...
Any one help me

[geoffrey ngoima]

Hello i am new here am not understand how to read book...
Any one help me

Hello, Alix,
Let me send you a message about that

[readandsmile]

thanks for visiting my review. This book is very interesting, I 'll try it. great review.

[meteku4]

I think I've got a huge appetite for this book. I am wondering to what extent the author has argued about scientific facts disproving biblical truths. I think I've chanced on a few scientific discoveries that authenticate biblical truths. With my small background in theology, I need to explore further. Thanks for the great review.

-- 09 Oct 2017, 07:33 --

Actually it's admirable, it's good to question, I've done it, still do, but your heart must be in the right place.

My two cents on this? You have to seek tHe truth and not just some principle that would make one's way of living convenient for one. Look, evil had to be there because Choice was there. For you to choose there must be options, bad or good; otherwise, we would have been robots. Evil is just a tool used by God to perpetuate choice, and it is us that perpetuate evil (money/power is the root of all evil). If evil is too much it has to be destroyed, obviously, otherwise, the world would be too corrupt to be salvaged (but with God nothing's impossible, so.) About Jesus, this is what I told someone in this very thread "@Kelebogile... I didn't know that, ...though I've always thought that we (humans) are three in one, i.e., body, soul and Spirit; & seeing as we're created in God's image, God's also 3 in 1; Body (Jesus), Soul (The Father), and Spirit (The Holy Ghost); 1 and the same, just as you are one and the same. Just my thoughts, I'd like to know your thoughts... ' "

My only doubt about the Bible is the hell phenomenon. I don't see the need to subject people to eternal damnation for things they did in 10 or 20 or 50 or even 150 years in this cruel world. The word eternal mixed with damnation is just a little too cruel for any reason and for whoever is administering the judgment, even God. I always felt that tidbits about the Bible were just altered/added by the Roman or whoever was powerful enough to do it. Even the Bible itself says it can be altered and pronounces judgment on anyone who would. & what is the age limit of going to hell, anyway? 12? 15? 18? I just find it hard to see kids burning in hell. Forever!

-- 02 Oct 2017, 11:57 --

The hell scriptures are just interpreted wrongly, you'd have to have a bigger picture of the Bible message to get it...
When you really think about it (and from the evidence of countless scripture verses like Romans 6:23 (NIV) For the wages of sin is death [not eternal damnation], but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord." that discount eternal damnation. There's hell and it's eternal fires but no eternal damnation, well, at least for humans, according to my (and I believe the correct) Bible interpretation.

Are you by any chance a Jehovah's Witness? I had a close friend once who introduced me to an alternative concept of Hell which is quite similar to what you've stated. I strongly believe that religion is a political tool and that Hell was an actual Sulphur mine located in medieval Palestine (the burning sulphur and brimstone bit). Nice review Geoffrey.

Oh, no, I disagree with a lot that the Jehova Witness say,.. My argument is quite close to Adventist's views,
(("Jehovah's [notice spelling] Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists have a lot in common. Ultimately they spring from mid-19th-century Millerism, the Adventists directly and the Witnesses more indirectly. Miller had calculated that Jesus would return in 1844, which didn't happen, but the Seventh-Day Adventists that emerged with Ellen White as their "prophetess" continued to assume that the year was somehow prophetically significant; indeed they still do."))
My argument is quite common sense; even an earthly father who isn't nearly as loving ad the Heavenly Father wouldn't even think of subjecting his son to an eternal punishment,... Mathew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." The hidden message here is souls will be destroyed in hell.
& my friend, hell isn't located anywhere right now, there's no scriptural evidence of that, the devil is on earth roaming across it ... Job 1:7 "The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." He isn't in charge like some folklores explain and lie to us. Hell will be on earth (the whole of it) when Christ will come back and the glory of his brightness will burn them... 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:.." That's my interpretation today... About the "eternal" fires, the Bible uses that word in various instances (check them out with a Bible app) but it doesn't mean "eternal" like we know it, it just means the work/purpose/aftermath of the fire will be eternal.

Interesting discussion here. But may I ask? Doesn't anyone have problem with the Almighty's enormous love for humankind? And if we do appreciate how great his love is demonstrated to and climaxed in the death of his son, should we now take his admonitions to humanity for granted? The sacrifice he made to redeem us has cost him hugely; don't you therefore think that rejecting his offer of salvation will cost him more gravely? I believe eternal damnation is possible. That too is a choice one has to make.

[geoffrey ngoima]

I think I've got a huge appetite for this book. I am wondering to what extent the author has argued about scientific facts disproving biblical truths. I think I've chanced on a few scientific discoveries that authenticate biblical truths. With my small background in theology, I need to explore further. Thanks for the great review.

-- 09 Oct 2017, 07:33 --

Are you by any chance a Jehovah's Witness? I had a close friend once who introduced me to an alternative concept of Hell which is quite similar to what you've stated. I strongly believe that religion is a political tool and that Hell was an actual Sulphur mine located in medieval Palestine (the burning sulphur and brimstone bit). Nice review Geoffrey.

Oh, no, I disagree with a lot that the Jehova Witness say,.. My argument is quite close to Adventist's views,
(("Jehovah's [notice spelling] Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists have a lot in common. Ultimately they spring from mid-19th-century Millerism, the Adventists directly and the Witnesses more indirectly. Miller had calculated that Jesus would return in 1844, which didn't happen, but the Seventh-Day Adventists that emerged with Ellen White as their "prophetess" continued to assume that the year was somehow prophetically significant; indeed they still do."))
My argument is quite common sense; even an earthly father who isn't nearly as loving ad the Heavenly Father wouldn't even think of subjecting his son to an eternal punishment,... Mathew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." The hidden message here is souls will be destroyed in hell.
& my friend, hell isn't located anywhere right now, there's no scriptural evidence of that, the devil is on earth roaming across it ... Job 1:7 "The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." He isn't in charge like some folklores explain and lie to us. Hell will be on earth (the whole of it) when Christ will come back and the glory of his brightness will burn them... 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:.." That's my interpretation today... About the "eternal" fires, the Bible uses that word in various instances (check them out with a Bible app) but it doesn't mean "eternal" like we know it, it just means the work/purpose/aftermath of the fire will be eternal.

Interesting discussion here. But may I ask? Doesn't anyone have problem with the Almighty's enormous love for humankind? And if we do appreciate how great his love is demonstrated to and climaxed in the death of his son, should we now take his admonitions to humanity for granted? The sacrifice he made to redeem us has cost him hugely; don't you therefore think that rejecting his offer of salvation will cost him more gravely? I believe eternal damnation is possible. That too is a choice one has to make.

@Readandsmile... Thank you. and you're welcome

@Meteku... I have the same opinion as you about Science authenticating the Bible story, I know that from the research I've done over the years, but some will still use science to discredit the Bible. It's so easy to take the Bible verses out of context to further people's own interpretations.

[meteku4]

I think I've got a huge appetite for this book. I am wondering to what extent the author has argued about scientific facts disproving biblical truths. I think I've chanced on a few scientific discoveries that authenticate biblical truths. With my small background in theology, I need to explore further. Thanks for the great review.

-- 09 Oct 2017, 07:33 --

Oh, no, I disagree with a lot that the Jehova Witness say,.. My argument is quite close to Adventist's views,
(("Jehovah's [notice spelling] Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists have a lot in common. Ultimately they spring from mid-19th-century Millerism, the Adventists directly and the Witnesses more indirectly. Miller had calculated that Jesus would return in 1844, which didn't happen, but the Seventh-Day Adventists that emerged with Ellen White as their "prophetess" continued to assume that the year was somehow prophetically significant; indeed they still do."))
My argument is quite common sense; even an earthly father who isn't nearly as loving ad the Heavenly Father wouldn't even think of subjecting his son to an eternal punishment,... Mathew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." The hidden message here is souls will be destroyed in hell.
& my friend, hell isn't located anywhere right now, there's no scriptural evidence of that, the devil is on earth roaming across it ... Job 1:7 "The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." He isn't in charge like some folklores explain and lie to us. Hell will be on earth (the whole of it) when Christ will come back and the glory of his brightness will burn them... 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:.." That's my interpretation today... About the "eternal" fires, the Bible uses that word in various instances (check them out with a Bible app) but it doesn't mean "eternal" like we know it, it just means the work/purpose/aftermath of the fire will be eternal.

Interesting discussion here. But may I ask? Doesn't anyone have problem with the Almighty's enormous love for humankind? And if we do appreciate how great his love is demonstrated to and climaxed in the death of his son, should we now take his admonitions to humanity for granted? The sacrifice he made to redeem us has cost him hugely; don't you therefore think that rejecting his offer of salvation will cost him more gravely? I believe eternal damnation is possible. That too is a choice one has to make.

@Readandsmile... Thank you. and you're welcome

@Meteku... I have the same opinion as you about Science authenticating the Bible story, I know that from the research I've done over the years, but some will still use science to discredit the Bible. It's so easy to take the Bible verses out of context to further people's own interpretations.

Exactly, and this out of context interpretation is so common in our day. I think we all need some classes on biblical hermeneutics

[geoffrey ngoima]

I think I've got a huge appetite for this book. I am wondering to what extent the author has argued about scientific facts disproving biblical truths. I think I've chanced on a few scientific discoveries that authenticate biblical truths. With my small background in theology, I need to explore further. Thanks for the great review.

-- 09 Oct 2017, 07:33 --



Interesting discussion here. But may I ask? Doesn't anyone have problem with the Almighty's enormous love for humankind? And if we do appreciate how great his love is demonstrated to and climaxed in the death of his son, should we now take his admonitions to humanity for granted? The sacrifice he made to redeem us has cost him hugely; don't you therefore think that rejecting his offer of salvation will cost him more gravely? I believe eternal damnation is possible. That too is a choice one has to make.

@Readandsmile... Thank you. and you're welcome

@Meteku... I have the same opinion as you about Science authenticating the Bible story, I know that from the research I've done over the years, but some will still use science to discredit the Bible. It's so easy to take the Bible verses out of context to further people's own interpretations.

Exactly, and this out of context interpretation is so common in our day. I think we all need some classes on biblical hermeneutics

I second that