Free Will

Use this forum to discuss the March 2021 Book of the month, "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan" by Daniel Friedmann, Dania Sheldon
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cd20
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Re: Free Will

Post by cd20 »

Phoenix_ Thompson wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 14:20 Free will is subjected to all of us for simply reason of fulfilling His divine plan, imagine loving God because you are forced, we would definitely rebel and the outcome will be so unspeakable.
Thank you for your perspective. I think even though we are not forced to love God there is still a lot that rebel and the results are unspeakable. I am thankful that we do have free will and I could not imagine how awful it would be if we did not have it and how boring the world would be because we would all be alike. Our differences is part of what makes the world beautiful.
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Ellylion wrote: 02 Apr 2021, 12:15
cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
I believe, it's Jewish mysticism, and I can agree with this interpretation of free will. It's a beautiful theory even if it hints that we all live in some kind of illusion :) At the same time, I would rather suggest that biblical time and our ordinary "human" time are not the same, and every particular Day lasted way longer than 24 hours.
While I don't quite buy into the full interpretation that the author portrays, I agree that it is an interesting theory and an interesting way of looking at things. It is hard to know if biblical time and "human" time are the same or not, but it is certainly possible that the days lasted longer back then. It is hard to imagine a day being longer than our standard 24 hours, and I am thankful that we do not have more time in the day!! THank you for your perspective and commenting.
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kridz21 wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 15:36 I mostly agree with this. If there were a known God, people would know that everything they do is for a reason, therefore destroying the concept of free will. I believe God gave us a choice to believe in Him or not and if we choose to believe in Him, we will have his support and guidance, but not his knowledge because He is in fact hidden. The people who choose to believe in Him have to be okay with the possibility of not having their own free will, but I agree with the statement above and I think God stays hidden for this reason.
That is an interesting perspective and I appreciate you sharing it. You said, "The people who choose to believe in Him have to be okay with the possibility of not having their own free will." I do believe in God and to me He is a known God, although not FULLY known, I still believe I have free will. I make choices every day and I am aware that my choices have consequences, rather good or bad. Also, "people would know that everything they do is for a reason..." Everything we do SHOULD be done for a reason, and we should know the reason why we do what we do. Doing things without reason or thought is what gets us into trouble.
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cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
We do have free will (clearly) and I believe it is a gift from God, but I don't think the reason we have it is because the Earth was made in six days. That doesn't make sense to me. First off, the Earth was NOT created in six "human" days; the earth formed over thousands of years. Plus, while the spirit and content of Genesis is true, I don't think the accounts of creation should be taken literally; that was never the intention of the writer, I believe.
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Post by cd20 »

Jachike Samuelson wrote: 06 Apr 2021, 02:41
cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
We do have free will (clearly) and I believe it is a gift from God, but I don't think the reason we have it is because the Earth was made in six days. That doesn't make sense to me. First off, the Earth was NOT created in six "human" days; the earth formed over thousands of years. Plus, while the spirit and content of Genesis is true, I don't think the accounts of creation should be taken literally; that was never the intention of the writer, I believe.
I agree that free will is a gift from God and that we do not have it because the earth was created in six days. I think the two stand apart from each other. I believe the accounts of creation are literal, but not necessarily as you said, "six human days." Thank you for sharing your perspective.
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I agree with the authors that God stays hidden because He wants humans to choose to obey Him. If God was an overbearing dictator who punished sinners on a whim, He would instill fear instead of cultivating a loyal following.
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I think that’s where faith comes in. If you believe in something because there is a never ending amount of physical evidence, it’s not faith. It talks in the Bible about how “these things will be hidden from them..” some people can’t see it.
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I actually found this concept a bit difficult to fully believe. On the one hand, it makes sense, but on the other, why giving humans free will if in the end they still have to follow his plan? But I think these are the kind of greater questions to which we will never be able to give a final answer.
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cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
This doesn't make sense to me. I don't see the correlation. God gave us free will as a gift. In other words, even if the six-day creation could be proven, people could still decide not to accept God. On another note, I disagree that the six days of creation means six literal days and nights as we know it. The creation account is anything but a literal story. I personally believe there may be a correlation between the six-day creation and the account of scientists to that we know as evolution.
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Unique Ego wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 17:31
cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
This doesn't make sense to me. I don't see the correlation. God gave us free will as a gift. In other words, even if the six-day creation could be proven, people could still decide not to accept God. On another note, I disagree that the six days of creation means six literal days and nights as we know it. The creation account is anything but a literal story. I personally believe there may be a correlation between the six-day creation and the account of scientists to that we know as evolution.
I agree that the two have nothing to do with each other. I do believe the six days are six literal days, but whether they are "human" days as we know them, I do not know. My husband also believes that there may be a correlation between creation and evolution, and while I am not closed to the possibility, I am unsure if it is true. I do believe that creation and science can go hand in hand, so maybe?
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Post by cd20 »

Fireside119 wrote: 06 Apr 2021, 14:51 I agree with the authors that God stays hidden because He wants humans to choose to obey Him. If God was an overbearing dictator who punished sinners on a whim, He would instill fear instead of cultivating a loyal following.
I think it could be a possibility of why God stays hidden, but not the full reason. I do not necessarily agree with your comment that "He would instill fear instead of cultivating a loyal following" because some people are afraid of God (the unknown part of Him and don't follow Him simply because they do fear Him). Not sure if that makes sense, but I am thankful that God is not an "overbearing dictator" and that we do have free will.
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Parahiyo wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 15:40 I do believe that the earth was created in six days and that God's exists. Even though He has control over everything He dignifies us with free will. The bible encourages us on what to choose to do with our lives but whatever we choose either right or wrong the consequences will be faced individually.
I agree with you, God did give us the gift of free will. We do get to choose what we do with our lives, how we react to situations, and what we do with our time. We will have to face the consequences of our actions and words someday.
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Arite Seki wrote: 02 Apr 2021, 00:48 I agree with the fact that if there was no way to doubt God, there may not be free will. However, I don't believe that God didn't want it to be obvious the Earth was created in six days. I don't think it was a literal explanation and it might have been written as a metaphor to explain creation in general.
I think the two have nothing to do with each other, yet the author chose to lump them together for some reason. God did give us free will and he did create the world in six days. Maybe it was a metaphor, but it is something that God expects us to follow, work six days and rest one day of the week. He was setting the example because obviously He did not need to rest.
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Precious Naiti wrote: 02 Apr 2021, 07:16 At first I believed God gave us free will because of the two worlds that were in place, the good and the bad. But if free will had not existed from the beginning then there would not have been a bad world to begin with. I think God gave us free will so that no one feels like they are living in bondage. I think only servants lack free will and God is not a slave master. He wants us to cone to him on our own accord.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I do not think there was a bad world, to begin with until Adam and Eve ate from the tree of good and evil. I agree that God wants us to come to Him of our own free will. He chooses all of us, but it is our choice to choose Him or not.
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SarahJean7 wrote: 09 Apr 2021, 17:03 I think that’s where faith comes in. If you believe in something because there is a never ending amount of physical evidence, it’s not faith. It talks in the Bible about how “these things will be hidden from them..” some people can’t see it.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I agree that is where faith comes in. It's easy to believe in things we can see and feel, but it requires faith to believe in something that we cannot see. Those who can't see things are those who do not believe in God and do not choose God, even though He chose them.
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