Beowulf

[literarycat]

This is one of my favorite stories. The addition I have is really cool, it has modern English on one side and the other side has the old English. It's really neat seeing the two compared to one another.

I never considered Grendel's mother a sea monster, I will have to reread the epic but I always just considered her amphibious.

[falloutlunartic]

I have read Beowulf recently because of school. It captivates you, by putting the images from the page into your mind. I did enjoy the vivid and old-time language, but it was also hard to understand and I did not enjoy it as much as other epics I have read. Beowulf is a real mystery to me on how one single manuscript survived hundreds of years before it was discovered.

[CzechTigg]

Always liked this essential story from times long ago. Now there is a 12 part TV series in the UK which expands on it.

[godreaujea]

I had to read this book several times in college and I think the most interesting theory I have heard on Grendel is probably the most boring. The theory goes that Grendel is just an outcast. In medieval times, there are certain "rules" in society, and one of these is the importance of the hierarchy. For instance, when Beowulf first introduces himself to the guard when he arrives at the beach, he describes who he is by saying who is father was. However, Grendel does not have a father, he has only a mother, and that is one reason why he was shunned by society, among other reasons we discussed in class.

[MsTri]

It's been literally decades since I read this, but I believe I had a version like literarycat's, with two versions in one book. I also believe it's to this book that I owe my love of the horror genre, as I don't recall being into it before I picked up this tome.

As to Grendel, I've seen the live-animation movie version nearly a dozen times now, so the image of the monster in that monster is the one in my head. At the same time, I seem to recall the version I read having a few illustrations, so that's how I pictured it until the movie came out.

[hepto]

it is very interesting and entertaining to read Anglo-Saxon epic about the hero Beowulf's fights with three monsters: Grendel, Grendel's mother, and, fifty years later at the end of his life, a dragon.

[Sebasrodalba]

I thought it was decent but a bit hard to follow at times, pretty sure that was the translation though, read the old Francis Barton Gummere version.

[Steph K]

This is a very interesting discussion. It's been about 10 years since I read Beowulf. I think when I read it, I didn't have the impression he was any particular kind of monster, like a sea monster or dragon. I pictured a Gollum like creature, but much larger. I read it in school. We didn't have the Seamus Heaney translation, which I understand is really popular. It was a side by side translation, with old English on one side and a translation on the other.

[cnrd6812]

It wasn't a cave, it was a swamp lair; Beowulf fights Grendel's mother underwater, because he has a superhuman ability to hold his breath. As for what Grendel is, the influence of Christianity is less of a problem than the flexible nature of magical monsters in Norse lore, which seems to be more an issue of rank and allegiance than inborn traits. Creatures like elves and dwarfs take on any number of different attributes such as shapeshifting, unnatural size, super regeneration, etc., though some, like trolls are ruled out by having a definite relationship with forests. Although there's nothing that prevents different "species" of magical creature from breeding with one another.

One point backing up the giant theory, however, is that the author says he is descended from the lineage of Cain: the implication here is that Cain's descendants were cast out from humanity and therefore unable to intermarry with them, so Cain and his descendants might have intermarried with the Nephilim instead. FYI: the Nephilim were supposed to be a hybrid race resulting from the intercourse between humans and fallen angels, who were so notoriously sinful and violent that God wiped them out in the flood, at least according to some interpretations. This gives them some degree of overlap with the Norse giants, who were a sort of counterpart to the Aesir (the ruling order of Gods), except that they lost the battle for divine supremacy - thus the connection to fallen angels, which is reinforced by Grendel's apparent aversion to music (in medieval Christian lore, demonic beings hated music, as it was considered the closest earthly thing to experiencing heaven). Though this reading still requires one to make a couple of assumptions.

The basic problem with saying that Grendel was one thing or another, however, is that in many polytheistic cultures, such as the Vikings had, concepts of the supernatural are cumulative rather than exclusive, such that when they make a transition to a monotheistic system, they simply take the monotheistic concepts and overlay them onto the polytheistic ones, as for example, with modern Santeria, or Shinto. So, it's entirely possible that Grendel might have been both an elf-giant and a half-demon in the imagination of the poet - one that simply had the ability to breathe underwater by some magical or genetic means.

All that aside however, I personally see Grendel as a sort of tragic figure; he had simply been minding his own business in his fen out in the wilderness, trying to make a comfortable existence for himself with his mother, when Hrothgar and his inconsiderate warriors started disturbing his peace with their loud partying, and then when he tried to assert his property rights, the resulting death and destruction left Beowulf honor-bound to destroy him, creating a blood-feud that left his mother dead as well. Also, I think Gardner's interpretation is decent taken for what it is, but I felt it tried too hard to philosophize Grendel's point of view.

[BelindaC]

I had to read this book several times in college and I think the most interesting theory I have heard on Grendel is probably the most boring. The theory goes that Grendel is just an outcast. In medieval times, there are certain "rules" in society, and one of these is the importance of the hierarchy. For instance, when Beowulf first introduces himself to the guard when he arrives at the beach, he describes who he is by saying who is father was. However, Grendel does not have a father, he has only a mother, and that is one reason why he was shunned by society, among other reasons we discussed in class.

Similarly I also had to read Beowulf several times throughout university, including one instance where I had to read it in the original Old English and translate sections of it into modern English. Like you, the "Grendel was juts an outcast" theory is one that I heard from my Old English professor. I personally think he's a combination of things, and more of an idea than a specific breed of monster. I see him as a kind of symbol of some kind of unruly wild chaos. He very much ticks off a lot of the boxes for things the Anglo Saxons were wary of, ie. having no father, not being a part of any community, connections to unholy beings, connections to the wilder more dangerous aspects of nature such as storms/wind/swamps, lawlessness, irrational behaviour and he fights dirty (ex. attacking the hall while everyone is asleep). He's kind of like the ultimate extreme example of a lone wolf/outsider figure.

[The Irmuun]

I just love Beowulf and the fact that this pretty short epic inspired so many of my favourite books. Since the moment I read this for uni, it's been one of my favourite poems and I think everyone should at least read this once and realize that this is the start of fantasy, right here.

[Lincolnshirelass]

I DID get through this in the original Anglo-Saxon at University (where our tutor, a rather ferocious though, I hasten to add, essentially good-hearted lady) was known as 'Grendel's Mother', but to be honest, would now probably read it in the Seamus Heaney translation. I also think other Anglo-Saxon tests, such as 'The Battle of Malden' deserve to be better known.

[GabbiV]

I've also heard that Grendel could be a dragon. In my headcanon, he's a kind of giant that only vaguely resembles humans due to eons of living in the dark underbelly of the world, subsisting on whatever animal he can fight to the death.

Reading Beowulf always made me long for the experience of hearing from an elder over the campfire that staves off the bitter winter cold. Haha oddly specific, but I can't get the image out of my head!

[Javier Campos]

Beowulf will always be one of my favorite stories, we are very lucky that some monk actually took the time to write it down, people always try to bring down the first version of the tale because it was written to promote Christian beliefs but I'm just glad and thankful it was written in the first place.

[holsam_87]

I have read the story of Beowulf several times and have always enjoyed it. Throughout my experiences discussing it with others I have heard multiple theories on what Grendel is, what he looks like, and how he came to exist. (I have not yet had the opportunity to read the book titled "Grendel" though). I would love to hear any/all of the theories that you have or that you've heard!

One of the theories that I have heard is that in the Garden of Eden when Eve was persuaded to partake of the "forbidden fruit" it was not literally fruit; and she became pregnant with the serpent's child when she was cast out of the garden. Then as generations passed, that child's offspring evolved and Grendel is one of its descendants. Therefore he is a mix between reptile and human, with tough skin like a reptile but limbs like a human.

Another theory I have heard is that Grendel is a dragon, specifically he and his mother are the last of them. All the other dragons had been hunted down, tortured, and killed long before; but because Grendel's mother had learned to change her form to deceive men she had escaped that fate.
(But I think the first one is more interesting)

Sounds very interesting. I have never actually read this, but keep meaning to. I have so many books in my pile to read, so I will add Beowulf too.