God is perfect: he cannot change, he cannot please or hurt. How so?

Use this forum to discuss the December 2020 Book of the month, "Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe" by Hilary L Hunt M.D.
Miraphery
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Re: God is perfect: he cannot change, he cannot please or hurt. How so?

Post by Miraphery »

I think that perfection doesn't mean God cannot feel or get hurt. He may not react the way humans do but he does have feelings of love and grief. We don't know the perfect answer to this question as we only know these things in parts, no one has ever seen God to ascertain what his perfection truly is.
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Post by Nzube Chizoba Okeke »

Personally, I believe that God is a perfect God. I also believe that he set up this world to run on principles and not sentiments. The result of giving us freewill is that we face the consequences of our actions, good or bad. In the end, our ideals of God is subjective.
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Post by Bigwig1973 »

The author stated that he had his book looked over for logical soundness and that someone within the church said that it was logically sound. It is possible that having this particular stance on God, perfection, etc., is necessary for the rest of the argument(s) to be logically valid. That most people almost inherently balk at this definition might say more about people, than it does about the nature of God. In that sense, it is almost a trap - to argue that God can be hurt would be to have ill feelings or intentions towards God, which might be construed as being "bad" thinking or attitudes, etc. Or like, "Brer Rabbit and Tar Baby" - the more you try to slap away at the theory, the more you get stuck. As to perfection, I have no idea what exactly it would be or how to define it, or whether or not it is relative depending on tastes or whether it has a solid, unchangeable definition.
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Post by MarvMike »

I think God has feelings and can be hurt by our actions. I believe what changes us(humans) is the concept of time and God is not affected by such concept(time). I also believe that he is perfect because he loves, treats, and judges everyone the same way and he expects us to do the same(to be perfect).
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Post by Francis Aderogbin »

AnnieOgoo wrote: 08 Dec 2020, 06:42 In a bid to explain God's perfection, the author states that;
a. God cannot change
b. He cannot please or hurt.
The reason behind this later conclusion being that: "Admitting the possibility of such would be admitting to an inherent defect in God’s perfection and would completely negate the concept of perfectness. Pleasing him admits to the existence of a pleasure port that is insufficiently filled, a partial void, a defect, and certainly not perfect. Hurting him would admit to the existence of cracks in His armor where noxious agents could penetrate and cause damage eliminating His perfection."
I find the reasons behind this conclusion (that God is perfect) to be unconvincing, even faulty.
Yes, I believe God is perfect, but not because he cannot be pleased or hurt. That would make him an unfeeling God. Perhaps he is perfect because he is the highest authority and the standard for perfection, i.e God is perfect because he is God.
This whole syllogism brings to mind the question, "What is perfection?"
So I ask:
a. Is God perfect because He cannot change, or please or hurt? And;
b. What is perfection?
In my opinion, God is perfect because he is God. And there have not been a record of him committing a mistake. Everything he does is intentional and with a reason whether we like it or not. So, God is perfect because he cannot change. God's perfection should not be attached to whether he can be pleased or hurt because he has feelings too. He is emotional too. But he is stable and decisive unlike men. That does not determine his perfection. His perfection is in his infallibility.

Perfection is simply absent of error or mistake.
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Post by Shieldmaiden88 »

God can not change, that is definitely true. His character is perfect and eternal. However the second statement I think is false. It fails to recognize God as a person. We are made in His image, so while we are far, far lower and finite, we reflect aspects of His character. As a heavenly Father, He loves to give good gifts to His children. The blessings He gives us make us happy. He also disciplines His children and judges wickedness, both necessary and painful things. It makes me sad for the author that she is not taking the time to genuinely seek to know God but rather is trying to intellectually understand the infinite with a finite mind and form conclusions based on her intellectual analysis, rather than on studying the character of God through His Word.
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Post by britcott30 »

God is perfect in every way. And perfect for God cannot be restricted by only hurt or please. That's why many people say that we as human cannot understand God, because He is too complicated and complex for us to understand
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Post by Gbemisola Akinremi »

God is no respecter of persons, meaning He's definitely unbiased, and so He is perfect. God is unchangeable. He is not like a man that is controlled by what another man does, NO. I believe God has feelings and that's why the Bible records that He is a jealous God. God is perfect because He is everything... All knowing, All loving, All forgiving etc. God's definition of perfection is definitely not void of error from man or that we won't make mistakes, on the contrary I want to believe he knows we will but it won't change His love for us, in comparison to man. Our definition of perfection is certainly not the same as God's.
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Post by Catherine15 »

God never make mistakes.in all his doings he is absolutely perfect, he is a spirit being.he can never change too.He can be pleased too,with our good deeds and praises to him for keeping us safe from one danger or the other he can be hurt when we constantly disobey his Words. In summary God can never change.he has never change and can never change.he watch upon his words to come to accomplishment. He is not a mere mortal.
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Post by Tangerinehippie1 »

God is the way, the truth, and the light. He is the beginning and the end. He is the definition of perfection.
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Post by Joy C »

Perfection refers to a state of being without flaws or faults. Just exquisite. And this, used in the description of God points to his nature as the all knowing and unchanging one.
His perfectness is not a function of our human capabilities or views of him. He is the standard by which perfection can be defined.
That being said, his being perfect is not because he cannot be pleased or he cannot be hurt. To say he cannot be pleased would depict him as a stone faced unemotional God which is not so. In scriptures, he is constantly depicted with emotions of love and he is said to be jealous over his people. God also shows pleasure and displeasure over his people's actions and inactions. These do not in any way change who he is .
Summarily, I would say that God is perfect because he is God and that his perfection cannot be defined on the basis of what he does or does not do for he can do all things.
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Post by tafta »

As humans from our level of understanding which is far lower than God's omniscience, it appears as though God is changing. Looking from the old testament to the new testament, it is in the broader picture God's plan to save humanity. His plan evolves from sub plots leading to a main plot that is Jesus to end sin, from sacrifice s of goat and sheep for atonement to His own Son. That can hardly be characterised as change in God. Humans change position all the time and blame it on God which is where we see God getting pleased with some people and hurt by others.
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Post by Unique Ego »

AnnieOgoo wrote: 08 Dec 2020, 06:42 In a bid to explain God's perfection, the author states that;
a. God cannot change
b. He cannot please or hurt.
The reason behind this later conclusion being that: "Admitting the possibility of such would be admitting to an inherent defect in God’s perfection and would completely negate the concept of perfectness. Pleasing him admits to the existence of a pleasure port that is insufficiently filled, a partial void, a defect, and certainly not perfect. Hurting him would admit to the existence of cracks in His armor where noxious agents could penetrate and cause damage eliminating His perfection."
I find the reasons behind this conclusion (that God is perfect) to be unconvincing, even faulty.
Yes, I believe God is perfect, but not because he cannot be pleased or hurt. That would make him an unfeeling God. Perhaps he is perfect because he is the highest authority and the standard for perfection, i.e God is perfect because he is God.
This whole syllogism brings to mind the question, "What is perfection?"
So I ask:
a. Is God perfect because He cannot change, or please or hurt? And;
b. What is perfection?
I 100% agree with you in this. God is perfect, no doubt. But the author's argument to solidify the belief in God's perfection doesn't make much sense to me. I believe God can be pleased and can hurt, and there are many instances to this in the Bible (I'm Christian, so I'm talking from the perspective of my faith). God being pleased doesn't mean he has a pleasure deficit that needs to be filled; same goes for pain. The author addresses pleasure and pain like they are measures, when they are really more prompslts than measures. God being perfect is a nod to his standards and authority.

One more thing: the Bible teaches that we are made in the image and likeness of God. So if we can feel pain and pleasure, where did we get it from? It has to mean that we are simply reflecting God in whose image and likeness we were made, doesn't it? Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
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Post by Hhannahh »

I think God is perfect because he is God; he is The Standard. I don't think of God as an unfeeling begin.
I feel like God's emotional spectrum (if there's such a thing) is very different from that of humans, and that is incomprehensible be us. And perfection is God.
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Post by Kennedy NC »

I do not believe God is perfect because he is never pleased nor hurt. However, He is perfect because He does not change. This means that everything He can become, He has already become. Every intangible attribute that can be manifested or conceived such as love, Patience, Justice and sundry, He already is in their full measure and so there is nothing more He can become. This means that we can expect always a level of certainty with all His actions no matter the changing times and seasons. This to me is what perfection represents.
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