Do you agree with the author's opinions on sin?

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Re: Do you agree with the author's opinions on sin?

Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Ayindelaw wrote: 11 Dec 2020, 07:17 I agree that selfishness is a big sin--if not even the king of all sins, but there are other sins as well, which includes sex before marriage. "Thou shall not covet another man's wife" also means that you should not have sexual relations with anyone except your wife. I disagree with the author, although some of these laws are man-made.
I think a lot of sins are common sense. Cheating on your partner is wrong. I would never cheat on my girlfriend. However sins like sex before marriage are man made and just don't need to exist. Sex is a basic survival instinct and need that God gave us to enable us to populate the world. You cannot control that instinct and rules like no sex before marriage are hardly going to stop people. In any case, if that rule is in place to prevent illegitimate children then things like contraception can be used to prevent that. Also, gay people aren't at risk of having children unless they do it using IVF or surrogates. That rule is just out of date to be honest.
"I decided a while ago not to deny myself the simpler pleasures of existence" - Augustus Waters (The Fault in Our Stars)
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Post by TCG »

I agree that man has come up with several laws that are not of the Bible. But surely, the ones you listed are backed up in the Bible. For example, the sin of sex outside marriage is clearly stated in the Bible as fornication.
The point is this: the Bible is not a guide for everyone. It is only a guide for those who believe in God.

If you are outside of a relationship with God, then the laws of the Bible does not apply to you. But this doesn't extinguish the fact that these instructions are not of God.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

TCG wrote: 14 Dec 2020, 13:46 I agree that man has come up with several laws that are not of the Bible. But surely, the ones you listed are backed up in the Bible. For example, the sin of sex outside marriage is clearly stated in the Bible as fornication.
The point is this: the Bible is not a guide for everyone. It is only a guide for those who believe in God.

If you are outside of a relationship with God, then the laws of the Bible does not apply to you. But this doesn't extinguish the fact that these instructions are not of God.
I agree with you to an extent. The Bible is definitely a guide, but it can be used even for those who do not believe in God, but just as a way to find peace. Some of the ones I listed are in the Bible, however, the Bible is outdated, it was written thousands of years ago and has been mistranslated many times. Things like selfishness can't change, they are a part of human nature, and also in the animal kingdom, but we don't have to act on the impulse. However, things like sex before marriage are man made, but reflect the values held at the time that the Bible was written. It is no longer a value that the vast majority of people possess, therefore is a man made sin that has become redundant, if that makes sense. Yes, it is in the Bible, but it is up to the Church to catch up to modern times, or it will lose its following even more than it already has!
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Post by Moocow1213 »

I agree with the author, that sins were man made, rather than backed by the bible, however I also believe that the bible partially added to the view on these 'sins'.
I think these views have been carried through the years and centuries.
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Post by AnnieOgoo »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 11 Dec 2020, 05:57
Luluwa79 wrote: 11 Dec 2020, 02:48
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 12:29 The author seems to believe that many of the sins in the world are man-made, rather than divine law. For example, sex before marriage, or polyamorous relationships, are wrong in the eyes of the Church, however, the author believes that these sort of things are not wrong, as sex, food, shelter, love, etc. are all the bare essentials that humans need to survive, just like any animal, it is up to us to do with these things as we will, they are not possible to control. We are not superior, we just have a superiority complex leading us to believe that we are better than all others. Therefore, the author comes to the conclusion that the only sin in the world is selfishness, especially in the way that the Church preaches equality bus has enough money to end world hunger, yet keeps that money for less important things, like more buildings. So I guess what I am trying to say, is I agree with the author that sins are man-made and are used to control the population. What do you guys think??
I agree to disagree with the author. Sin is disobedience to the law. Sins are man-made but like the author said, "it is up to us to do things as we will, they are not possible to control". But I think sins are possible to control it just takes determination and self-control.
Sins are definitely possible to control, but I think that there are certain sins that are not necessary, they are made by the Church to try and control people and make sure they follow their doctrine. Trying to control a person's basic instincts are impossible
I think that there are certain sins that are not necessary, they are made by the Church to try and control people and make sure they follow their doctrine.
[/quote]

I perfectly agree with you. Certain sins are made up by religious institutions to control their members. When thought upon, such sins don't even make sense; some things are sin simply because the church says they are.
For instance, I grew up in a church that considers women wearing trousers or makeup a sin; any woman putting on such is deemed an ungodly woman, an unbeliever. These 'sins' never made sense to me, even as a child. And I've painstakingly searched for where the Bible EXPRESSLY condemned those acts to no avail. Hence, I've decided to live based on my convictions, and not on those of a person born eons ago.
I agree with the author that (most) sins are man-made. However, there are God-ordained standards for mankind. One of the all-encompassing standards is LOVE.
Live and let live, baby. :wink:
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Post by Brendan Donaghy »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 14 Dec 2020, 08:29
Ayindelaw wrote: 11 Dec 2020, 07:17 I agree that selfishness is a big sin--if not even the king of all sins, but there are other sins as well, which includes sex before marriage. "Thou shall not covet another man's wife" also means that you should not have sexual relations with anyone except your wife. I disagree with the author, although some of these laws are man-made.
I think a lot of sins are common sense. Cheating on your partner is wrong. I would never cheat on my girlfriend. However sins like sex before marriage are man made and just don't need to exist. Sex is a basic survival instinct and need that God gave us to enable us to populate the world. You cannot control that instinct and rules like no sex before marriage are hardly going to stop people. In any case, if that rule is in place to prevent illegitimate children then things like contraception can be used to prevent that. Also, gay people aren't at risk of having children unless they do it using IVF or surrogates. That rule is just out of date to be honest.
'I think a lot of sins are common sense. Cheating on your partner is wrong'
'Sin' only makes sense if you believe in divine law. If you don't believe that there is some all-seeing, all-powerful deity who has laid down rules and regulations about how we should behave, then there is no such thing as sin. What there is, is human behaviour in all its forms. From that perspective, cheating on your partner is absolutely wrong because it's dishonest, hurtful behaviour, not because it says so in any religious text.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Brendan Donaghy wrote: 16 Dec 2020, 05:15
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 14 Dec 2020, 08:29
Ayindelaw wrote: 11 Dec 2020, 07:17 I agree that selfishness is a big sin--if not even the king of all sins, but there are other sins as well, which includes sex before marriage. "Thou shall not covet another man's wife" also means that you should not have sexual relations with anyone except your wife. I disagree with the author, although some of these laws are man-made.
I think a lot of sins are common sense. Cheating on your partner is wrong. I would never cheat on my girlfriend. However sins like sex before marriage are man made and just don't need to exist. Sex is a basic survival instinct and need that God gave us to enable us to populate the world. You cannot control that instinct and rules like no sex before marriage are hardly going to stop people. In any case, if that rule is in place to prevent illegitimate children then things like contraception can be used to prevent that. Also, gay people aren't at risk of having children unless they do it using IVF or surrogates. That rule is just out of date to be honest.
'I think a lot of sins are common sense. Cheating on your partner is wrong'
'Sin' only makes sense if you believe in divine law. If you don't believe that there is some all-seeing, all-powerful deity who has laid down rules and regulations about how we should behave, then there is no such thing as sin. What there is, is human behaviour in all its forms. From that perspective, cheating on your partner is absolutely wrong because it's dishonest, hurtful behaviour, not because it says so in any religious text.
I do agree with you if you look at it from that perspective. However, I do believe in God, I am a Christian, and yet while cheating on your partner is a sin in the Bible, I just think that it is common sense. I don't think it needs to be written down for it to be known that it is wrong! Obviously I believe it is wrong if you are in what society considers a 'normal relationship, but for some people, things like polyamoury, and open relationships (which some people who believe in God are in), it isn't wrong at all, so if you look at it from that view, it is a man made sin. In any case, selfishness is at the heart of most sins, man made or not. So personally I believe that it is the only true, non man made sin!
"I decided a while ago not to deny myself the simpler pleasures of existence" - Augustus Waters (The Fault in Our Stars)
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Post by zainherb »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 12:29 The author seems to believe that many of the sins in the world are man made, rather than divine law. For example, sex before marriage, or polyamourous relationships, are wrong in the eyes of the Church, however, the author believes that these sort of things are not wrong, as sex, food, shelter, love etc. are all the bare essentials that humans need to survive, just like any animal, it is up to us to do with these things as we will, they are not possible to control. We are not superior, we just have a superiority complex leading us to believe that we are better than all others. Therefore, the author comes to the conclusion that the only sin in the world is selfishness, especially in the way that the Church preaches equality bus has enough money to end world hunger, yet keeps that money for less important things, like more buildings. So I guess what I am trying to say, is I agree with the author that sins are man made and are used to control the population. What do you guys think??

Interesting!

Sin is a construct of religion. Therefore, it would take religion to decide what is to be considered sin.
If you are coming from outside of religion, saying that what they consider sin is not actually sin, but something else is sin,
It makes no sense because religion actually brought forth the concept of sin in the first place.

If I invent the concept of food, and I say bread is an example of food.
Someone else can't come and say bread is not food but sand is food. I invented the concept, ergo I get to decide what counts as food.
Clear?
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

zainherb wrote: 16 Dec 2020, 17:11
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 12:29 The author seems to believe that many of the sins in the world are man made, rather than divine law. For example, sex before marriage, or polyamourous relationships, are wrong in the eyes of the Church, however, the author believes that these sort of things are not wrong, as sex, food, shelter, love etc. are all the bare essentials that humans need to survive, just like any animal, it is up to us to do with these things as we will, they are not possible to control. We are not superior, we just have a superiority complex leading us to believe that we are better than all others. Therefore, the author comes to the conclusion that the only sin in the world is selfishness, especially in the way that the Church preaches equality bus has enough money to end world hunger, yet keeps that money for less important things, like more buildings. So I guess what I am trying to say, is I agree with the author that sins are man made and are used to control the population. What do you guys think??

Interesting!

Sin is a construct of religion. Therefore, it would take religion to decide what is to be considered sin.
If you are coming from outside of religion, saying that what they consider sin is not actually sin, but something else is sin,
It makes no sense because religion actually brought forth the concept of sin in the first place.

If I invent the concept of food, and I say bread is an example of food.
Someone else can't come and say bread is not food but sand is food. I invented the concept, ergo I get to decide what counts as food.
Clear?
You are going into a whole section of sociology my friend! It's very interesting isn't it? Like the fact that thousands of years ago someone created this idea of 'sin', but if they had called it something else, the concept of sin would never exist and we would never know the difference, if that makes sense?
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Post by Aniza Butt »

I don't agree with the author. Unlike the other animals, Human are given reasoning and control over their desire. And yes, i think human are superior to other animals.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Aniza Butt wrote: 17 Dec 2020, 09:33 I don't agree with the author. Unlike the other animals, Human are given reasoning and control over their desire. And yes, i think human are superior to other animals.
Interesting, do you think humans can control their selfishness? And do you think that sins, other than selfishness, are man made? May I ask why you think humans (also animals) are superior to other animals?
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Post by Sarah Nichols 7 »

I disagree. Sin is clearly labeled in the Bible. In a way, man did create sin because he disobeyed God and that’s when sin entered the world. I do agree that selfishness or pride is the cause of most sin. There’s some partial truth in what the author is saying.
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Post by Ndiviwe »

I agree with the author that the majority of sins are man made because God created us incorrupt, but we inherited our sinful nature from the original sinners, Adam and Eve. I find it very hypocritical of the Church who claim to be following God and his word, but they hold on to a lot of power and money that could help solve a majority of the world's problems. In the Bible God tells us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. If the Church focused on spreading love and positivity instead of controling our behavior, thought process and views the world would be a much better place.
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Post by Undertaker5squad »

Sushan wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 13:50 Totally agree with the author. We can think about our legal system and understand that. Initially there was no such system. When someof the things that people did disrupted the society, people got together and prohibited them to be repeated making those laws, and for those who break them, they invented the punishments. But it could not be done for each and everything. So few knowledgeable ones found a better way. Religious manipulations. They named few things as sins and prevented others from doing them due to the fear of a superior repercussion. As far as I see, that is how a thing called sin has occurred in most of the situations
I have to disagree with both you and the author. There are certain things which we know to be wrong, even if we don't admit it to ourselves. Yeah, I guess you could say sin is man-made in that man commits and causes it, but not in the sense that we have created the law that makes it wrong. So Church law doesn't make up sin. It clarifies what is already there by telling us what we should and should not do according to a Divine Law. Yeah, it doesn't make sense that a person shoudn't steal or cheat on their wife or tell lies, especially because we are drawn to those very things. But, as the journalist and author G.K. Chesterton says, (I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact quote) the condition of a "happy ending" is an arbitrary command. That's why fairy tales are so widespread- the success or failure of the characters is often dependent on a seemingly irrelevant law that they must obey. The hero will only succeed in his quest if he looks at his shield and not at the Gorgons. Pandora cannot look in the box or she will release woe upon mankind. Man can be immortal and live forever in paradise, if he will only refrain from eating the fruit of one tree.
I'd also like to add, as a sort of footnote, that religious laws are not (or should not be) purely negative things. Their focus isn't on what we shouldn't do, but what we should do. Virtue is not a negative thing- it is as positive and blazing as a star. So we shouldn't just not do the wrong thing, but we should instead do the right thing. Sin is real, but so is goodness.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Undertaker5squad wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 14:26
Sushan wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 13:50 Totally agree with the author. We can think about our legal system and understand that. Initially there was no such system. When someof the things that people did disrupted the society, people got together and prohibited them to be repeated making those laws, and for those who break them, they invented the punishments. But it could not be done for each and everything. So few knowledgeable ones found a better way. Religious manipulations. They named few things as sins and prevented others from doing them due to the fear of a superior repercussion. As far as I see, that is how a thing called sin has occurred in most of the situations
I have to disagree with both you and the author. There are certain things which we know to be wrong, even if we don't admit it to ourselves. Yeah, I guess you could say sin is man-made in that man commits and causes it, but not in the sense that we have created the law that makes it wrong. So Church law doesn't make up sin. It clarifies what is already there by telling us what we should and should not do according to a Divine Law. Yeah, it doesn't make sense that a person shoudn't steal or cheat on their wife or tell lies, especially because we are drawn to those very things. But, as the journalist and author G.K. Chesterton says, (I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact quote) the condition of a "happy ending" is an arbitrary command. That's why fairy tales are so widespread- the success or failure of the characters is often dependent on a seemingly irrelevant law that they must obey. The hero will only succeed in his quest if he looks at his shield and not at the Gorgons. Pandora cannot look in the box or she will release woe upon mankind. Man can be immortal and live forever in paradise, if he will only refrain from eating the fruit of one tree.
I'd also like to add, as a sort of footnote, that religious laws are not (or should not be) purely negative things. Their focus isn't on what we shouldn't do, but what we should do. Virtue is not a negative thing- it is as positive and blazing as a star. So we shouldn't just not do the wrong thing, but we should instead do the right thing. Sin is real, but so is goodness.
But being drawn to steal, or cheat on one's partner has selfishness at its heart, no? Sins are man made, we agree on that, but the author argues that the one true sin is selfishness because it at the heart of all sins. So surely in a way that means that that the author is right. There is right and there is wrong, definitely. It makes sense not to cheat on your partner, that's common human decency, but when done, it is done with selfish means, to fulfill your sexual desires that you feel your partner cannot do, or you just want to do it because you think it'll feel good. I guess what I am trying to say, is these things are common sense about what is right and what is wrong, but the sin itself is selfishness, if that makes sense?
"I decided a while ago not to deny myself the simpler pleasures of existence" - Augustus Waters (The Fault in Our Stars)
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