Are the "Bad Guys" Actually Bad?

Use this forum to discuss the October 2020 Book of the month, "We are Voulhire: A New Arrival under Great Skies" by Matthew Tysz.
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Krista Ash
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Re: Are the "Bad Guys" Actually Bad?

Post by Krista Ash »

Moray_001 wrote: โ†‘08 Oct 2020, 07:48 Oh I actually considered this too at some point when I was reading this book. For example, Lord Meldorath, it was the fear of him and the power he had that made him a public enemy.
I agree partially. I think Wilhelm was scared of Meldorath and his power over the people (through fear), so he imprisoned him and claimed he was dead. I think the original cause for the fear of Meldorath, though, was how he used people as experiments to learn more about magic.
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Post by Personalanama »

I think any misunderstood person or anyone going against societal norms or what is by large deemed acceptable, is labeled "bad", simply because they are outside what is understood as normal. Maybe they are not all that bad. It'the fear of the unknown, that puts them in such a spot.
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Post by scaryeyes_25 »

That's one of the things I pointed out in my review. And after reading the second book I'm really inclined to think that I may have perceived the bad guys wrongly. I am not saying that what they did was good or their motives justify the results. All I am saying is, let's not easily hate anyone at this point. I truly believe Tysz will twist everything every time there is an opportunity. ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜
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Post by Jojobiz »

Bad or good guy is a relative label. A bad giy is termrd that way if whateverr they do is beyond acceptable. I don't think they were as bad as the characters believe they are.
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Post by Drado_27 »

Fantastic question. This is one of the things why I don't enjoy reading Tysz' books as much. Some characters are just said to be bad, there is no valid proof. Therefore, I don't feel any particular emotions about them. This certainly can be improved in his future work.
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Post by Moray_001 »

Krista Ash wrote: โ†‘08 Oct 2020, 16:30
Moray_001 wrote: โ†‘08 Oct 2020, 07:48 Oh I actually considered this too at some point when I was reading this book. For example, Lord Meldorath, it was the fear of him and the power he had that made him a public enemy.
I agree partially. I think Wilhelm was scared of Meldorath and his power over the people (through fear), so he imprisoned him and claimed he was dead. I think the original cause for the fear of Meldorath, though, was how he used people as experiments to learn more about magic.
Oh yes, there is that aspect too. It was quite scary the way he could control an individual and see things through their eyes. But I feel his abilities came in handy when fighting the minions of the Emperor of Lullabies.
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Post by Moray_001 »

valeriejane wrote: โ†‘04 Oct 2020, 16:38 Good Question!
There are always more than one side to a story, and therefore truth is somewhere in the middle. Depends which side they are on. Everyone is pleading innocence and it is hard to know what is true. It is almost as if, each newcomer invents a crime regarding the predecessor to achieve power. That is except the last Lord (Eldus) of Hillport who I thought had kind motives. I did not like that Eldus and his family was killed.
~ Valerie
Oh it was a massacre! It sullied the town of Hillport, the people who once thrived disappeared. I had high hopes that Lord Eldus would help Hillport but it was not so. I think that was the saddest part of book 1 for me.
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Post by Prudence Emillian »

Interesting question. I had not actually considered that up until I read your question. Looking at the situation I wouldn't say there are actually villains in the book. Though King Saint Idus may have had shortcomings, I don't think this makes him a villain as well as King Wilhelm or Chancellor Maido for that matter. On the other hand, I also wouldn't say that Riva and Lord Meldorath are villains as such.
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Post by pablo10 »

I am not too sure about Lord Orlin's abuse of children. I think we have to wait and see. But the Riva Rohabi's righteous anger means nothing when they are killing innocents in spades. Lord Meldorath might have more complex motivations though.
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Post by Intel »

I believe the supposed villains have more depth to them then murder. Something epic is being covered up and the King seems say to friendly considering that the other lands surrounding are less civil.
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Post by Ediomis_Enwongo01 »

I don't want to fall into the temptation of pointing to the Riva Rohavi as the "bad guys". Rather, I saw them as a pressure group that were demanding for good governance for the people.
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Post by OB Brian »

Krista Ash wrote: โ†‘03 Oct 2020, 14:25 There is evidence that perhaps Lord Orlin did not actually abuse children. The Riva Rohavi have very righteous reasons for hating Voulhire. Meldorath was never given a proper trial before being imprisoned.

Do you think the antagonists of the story are actually villains? Or are they more honorable than the portrayed heroes: King Wilhelm, Chancellor Maido, and King Saint Idus?
I don't think they are. But again, everyone is bad in the eyes of someone if they behave in an untrustworthy manner. It is human nature to judge. Orlin was murdered, no doubt by Meldorath who was actually experimenting on children. Riva slaughtered an innocent fishing town to spite the kingdom, and Meldorath massacred a navy posted to keep him in prison to escape. Wilhelm did not kill Meldorath when he had the chance, opting instead to imprison him. When you think about it, bad guys are actually bad, and good guys are good.
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Post by mariana90 »

I agree that the morality of the characters isn't as black and white as it originally seems. I think there must be some explanation for the characters' actions we aren't privy to yet.
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Post by Krista Ash »

pablo10 wrote: โ†‘09 Oct 2020, 08:14 I am not too sure about Lord Orlin's abuse of children. I think we have to wait and see. But the Riva Rohabi's righteous anger means nothing when they are killing innocents in spades. Lord Meldorath might have more complex motivations though.
I think we've been given enough to strongly doubt Orlin's supposed crime: he was confused when Meldorath arrested/killed him; none of the children are afraid of Orlin like they are of Meldorath; the doctors saw no signs of abuse on the children, and Orlin calls children "obnoxious and messy."

I do agree with you about the Riva. Their motives might be justified, but after the massacre at Hillport, they can only be called bad guys... Unless Meldorath actually controlled them and forced them to attack :eusa-think: ... I don't think that's what happened, but who knows?
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Post by naomilupton_98 »

Personally, I do not think there are villains in the overall story. As previously stated, there are characters with varying ideas of that which is moral (and thus right) and immoral. If one thinks about it, absolute right and wrong can only be determined by a law that everyone involved should abide by. Having said that, there doesn't seem to be a law binding to both the kingdom of Voulhire or the Lands of the Princes, for example. It is thus plausible that actions that are "right" in the Lands of the Princes, may be illegal (and thus wrong and punishable by law) in Voulhire. If the deity referred to in the religion of Voulhire created all and is sovereign over all (I am a little hazy as to what this religion actually entails, to be honest), then it can be argued that, as in Judaism and Christianity, any action contrary to what this god commanded, is a sin and thus, wrong. But, people have their own views on right and wrong, and so my idea of a villain is not necessarily in agreement with someone else's idea.
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