The author and racism

Use this forum to discuss the July 2019 Book of the month, "Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream" by Dr Frank L Douglas.
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The author and racism

Post by Nisha Ward »

So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana, from one of his professors saying that he would never be a scientist to Ciba Geigy's DLs not wanting to give him Max's job in full because of his ethnicity. This is obviously still a problem the world over, but the author makes it a point to confront these because he has a different experience of it. What do you think of Frank's experiences in this area and how he confronts them?
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Post by Wriley »

Frank faces racism by holding his head high and working hard. I am not sure with the case of Ciba Geigy if I wouldn't have gotten mad but at that time in history, that was not an option for a black man. I'm white so I can't even imagine that kind of racism.
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Post by briellejee »

It broke my heart when his professor said that to him. Racism is ugly back then and still is now. Frank, however, faces this with determination to prove them wrong. I guess it is courageous and at the same time took a lot of mental strength to overcome those.
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Post by Nisha Ward »

Wriley wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 09:57 Frank faces racism by holding his head high and working hard. I am not sure with the case of Ciba Geigy if I wouldn't have gotten mad but at that time in history, that was not an option for a black man. I'm white so I can't even imagine that kind of racism.
Yeah. Not to mention, a lot of people think Europe is less racist than the US but there are still a lot of traces of it. I think it also depends on the culture of the organisation involved, because even though he had more pushback at Hoescht, it was due to his being from the U.S. branch, as opposed to Ciba Geigy, which was definitely about his ethnicity.
"...while a book has got to be worthwhile from the point of view of the reader it's got to be worthwhile from the point of view of the writer as well." - Terry Pratchett on The Last Continent and his writing.
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Post by Nisha Ward »

briellejee wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 21:57 It broke my heart when his professor said that to him. Racism is ugly back then and still is now. Frank, however, faces this with determination to prove them wrong. I guess it is courageous and at the same time took a lot of mental strength to overcome those.
He did! I'm also glad that not all the professors were like that and that there were many willing to let him prove himself.
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Post by Florence Nalianya »

The author faces several instances of discrimination in the USA to an extend where a lecturer feels he can't be a scientist and doesn't deserve that kind of education. At some point, the racist think he can't have a job for he is black.
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Post by Nisha Ward »

Florence Nalianya wrote: 10 Jul 2019, 06:30 The author faces several instances of discrimination in the USA to an extend where a lecturer feels he can't be a scientist and doesn't deserve that kind of education. At some point, the racist think he can't have a job for he is black.
Yes. I find it also quite interesting that this wasn't an isolated thing but ongoing even to this century. It's also clear that he wasn't quite expecting it too.
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Post by DC Brown »

Nisha Ward wrote: 06 Jul 2019, 09:42 So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana, from one of his professors saying that he would never be a scientist to Ciba Geigy's DLs not wanting to give him Max's job in full because of his ethnicity. This is obviously still a problem the world over, but the author makes it a point to confront these because he has a different experience of it. What do you think of Frank's experiences in this area and how he confronts them?
He was brave and stuck to his principles. Unfortunately, racism is still alive and well in the US. Just last year, a friend and I went to a restaurant in a northern state and the staff did not want to serve us because my friend is black. I was shocked. She was not.
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Post by DC Brown »

Nisha Ward wrote: 10 Jul 2019, 20:34
Florence Nalianya wrote: 10 Jul 2019, 06:30 The author faces several instances of discrimination in the USA to an extend where a lecturer feels he can't be a scientist and doesn't deserve that kind of education. At some point, the racist think he can't have a job for he is black.
Yes. I find it also quite interesting that this wasn't an isolated thing but ongoing even to this century. It's also clear that he wasn't quite expecting it too.

His experiences prove to me what my friends have often told me: Discrimination is alive and well here in the US.
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Post by Nisha Ward »

DC Brown wrote: 11 Jul 2019, 20:47
Nisha Ward wrote: 06 Jul 2019, 09:42 So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana, from one of his professors saying that he would never be a scientist to Ciba Geigy's DLs not wanting to give him Max's job in full because of his ethnicity. This is obviously still a problem the world over, but the author makes it a point to confront these because he has a different experience of it. What do you think of Frank's experiences in this area and how he confronts them?
He was brave and stuck to his principles. Unfortunately, racism is still alive and well in the US. Just last year, a friend and I went to a restaurant in a northern state and the staff did not want to serve us because my friend is black. I was shocked. She was not.
It sucks that that happened to you guys but yeah. It's actually interesting that Dr. Douglas continues to believe that people can be better in spite of this, though.
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Post by Ferdinand_Otieno »

Nisha Ward wrote: 06 Jul 2019, 09:42 So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana, from one of his professors saying that he would never be a scientist to Ciba Geigy's DLs not wanting to give him Max's job in full because of his ethnicity. This is obviously still a problem the world over, but the author makes it a point to confront these because he has a different experience of it. What do you think of Frank's experiences in this area and how he confronts them?
I thin the author has a very determined personality and worked hard through all the racial discrimination he faced. For him, having already experienced discrimination due to poverty and social class back in Guyana strengthened his resolve and helped him face racial discrimination. I have experienced such discrimination and his reaction was understandable to me.
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Post by Nisha Ward »

Ferdinand_otieno wrote: 12 Jul 2019, 07:27
Nisha Ward wrote: 06 Jul 2019, 09:42 So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana, from one of his professors saying that he would never be a scientist to Ciba Geigy's DLs not wanting to give him Max's job in full because of his ethnicity. This is obviously still a problem the world over, but the author makes it a point to confront these because he has a different experience of it. What do you think of Frank's experiences in this area and how he confronts them?
I thin the author has a very determined personality and worked hard through all the racial discrimination he faced. For him, having already experienced discrimination due to poverty and social class back in Guyana strengthened his resolve and helped him face racial discrimination. I have experienced such discrimination and his reaction was understandable to me.

Indeed. It's actually rather interesting to compare the American experience with that of the immigrant because the discrimination is still there but the reaction tends to differ, no?
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Post by Ferdinand_Otieno »

Nisha Ward wrote: 12 Jul 2019, 12:32
Ferdinand_otieno wrote: 12 Jul 2019, 07:27
Nisha Ward wrote: 06 Jul 2019, 09:42 So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana, from one of his professors saying that he would never be a scientist to Ciba Geigy's DLs not wanting to give him Max's job in full because of his ethnicity. This is obviously still a problem the world over, but the author makes it a point to confront these because he has a different experience of it. What do you think of Frank's experiences in this area and how he confronts them?
I thin the author has a very determined personality and worked hard through all the racial discrimination he faced. For him, having already experienced discrimination due to poverty and social class back in Guyana strengthened his resolve and helped him face racial discrimination. I have experienced such discrimination and his reaction was understandable to me.

Indeed. It's actually rather interesting to compare the American experience with that of the immigrant because the discrimination is still there but the reaction tends to differ, no?
Yes I think the reactions tend to differ, and it is informative ad to the progress made since that time.
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Post by Wriley »

Nisha Ward wrote: 09 Jul 2019, 06:11
Wriley wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 09:57 Frank faces racism by holding his head high and working hard. I am not sure with the case of Ciba Geigy if I wouldn't have gotten mad but at that time in history, that was not an option for a black man. I'm white so I can't even imagine that kind of racism.
Yeah. Not to mention, a lot of people think Europe is less racist than the US but there are still a lot of traces of it. I think it also depends on the culture of the organisation involved, because even though he had more pushback at Hoescht, it was due to his being from the U.S. branch, as opposed to Ciba Geigy, which was definitely about his ethnicity.
I've heard that Europeans can be rude people just for being from the U.S.A. I do know that I've experienced Europeans being rude but wondered if that was their culture. I especially felt it in Alaska last summer while on vacation. There were quite a few people from Northern Europe that were completely rude. I do know different cultures can be colder personality wise. Maybe Frank had some of those experiences too.
Logic will get you from A to Z
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Post by Ferdinand_Otieno »

Wriley wrote: 14 Jul 2019, 09:11
Nisha Ward wrote: 09 Jul 2019, 06:11
Wriley wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 09:57 Frank faces racism by holding his head high and working hard. I am not sure with the case of Ciba Geigy if I wouldn't have gotten mad but at that time in history, that was not an option for a black man. I'm white so I can't even imagine that kind of racism.
Yeah. Not to mention, a lot of people think Europe is less racist than the US but there are still a lot of traces of it. I think it also depends on the culture of the organisation involved, because even though he had more pushback at Hoescht, it was due to his being from the U.S. branch, as opposed to Ciba Geigy, which was definitely about his ethnicity.
I've heard that Europeans can be rude people just for being from the U.S.A. I do know that I've experienced Europeans being rude but wondered if that was their culture. I especially felt it in Alaska last summer while on vacation. There were quite a few people from Northern Europe that were completely rude. I do know different cultures can be colder personality wise. Maybe Frank had some of those experiences too.
I think at the specific time period, there was less different reactions based on continent, and more of racial discrimination because he was part of the black population.
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