Truth or Fable?

Use this forum to discuss the May 2019 Book of the month, "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler
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godreaujea
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Re: Truth or Fable?

Post by godreaujea » 29 May 2019, 07:15

I believe that with religion, the truth is in the eye of the beholder. By that I mean it can be interpreted in so many ways that there isn’t just one answer. If you want to believe something is true, you can find evidence to support your claim. However I think people must be open to hearing other interpretations as well.

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Post by Kelyn » 29 May 2019, 13:30

godreaujea wrote:
29 May 2019, 07:15
I believe that with religion, the truth is in the eye of the beholder. By that I mean it can be interpreted in so many ways that there isn’t just one answer. If you want to believe something is true, you can find evidence to support your claim. However I think people must be open to hearing other interpretations as well.
Very, very true. I couldn't have put it better myself! Thanks so much for stopping in and sharing your thoughts with us!
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Post by Nicole_Boyd » 29 May 2019, 16:16

I believe that Judas was the betrayer as the Bible says he was. This book didn’t change my mind at all. I believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God. The “gospel of Judas” has so much missing from it, I don’t know how the author thinks this can be “proof” of Judas becoming the next master after Jesus.

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Post by jlrinc » 29 May 2019, 23:01

Kelyn wrote:
29 May 2019, 01:14
JPalomares wrote:
27 May 2019, 22:26
Something we tend to forget is that the Bible was once a 'living' collection of documents. These documents were written by human hands and were subject to the changing fortunes and dispositions of the peoples they served. 'Peoples', I say, because there was, for a goodly while, a pair of Hebrew kingdoms, each with their own take and each with their own contributions. (The Golden Bull story, for example, may well be an attack on specific worship practices of the northern kingdom, Israel.)
Precisely!!! Soooo many people don't even want to look at that much less admit it! Humans are fallible! We have no way of knowing if what they wrote "came from God" or if it was a result of what they and their people were going through and/or their own opinions about things - such as other worship practices. It's entirely possible that they fully believed it came straight from God. But (and I believe the point has already been made somewhere in this forum) believing something and writing it down, doesn't automatically make it true. Why wouldn't this be as true of those documents the Rabbi's decided were biblical as those they did not?
This period gave us Genesis 1 - a document patterned on the Babylonian genesis story, the Enuma Elish - and, very probably, the story of the great flood.
I've never actually seen the Enuma Elish before so I went and looked it up. Those are some really...volatile...gods. Not exactly the view of perfection. But some of this was actually accepted as canon? Wouldn't that be a bit heretical?
The answer is that any translation worth the paper its printed on isn't a translation of a translation. No serious, ethical scholar would translate, for example, an English Bible into Italian for just the reason you stated. We have better sources.
Yet I have absolutely no doubt that there are any number of Bibles (and other religious texts) floating around out there and being accepted as authentic which have been translated in exactly this way with the general public none the wiser. And how are they/we expected to be able to tell the difference?
True - my point here is that the author keeps telling us that his tradition is older than mainline Christianity. The earliest Gospel we have is Mark's, which was, itself, key in the creation of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. If the Gnostics have a Gospel older than Mark's, then they have a shot at establishing their religion as older than Christianity. Maybe I'm just picking nits, but it irks me how much he asserts without data to back it up.
Admittedly, this doesn't equal an entire gospel, but just going from a memory I have from one of my religion classes, can't some elements of Gnosticism actually be traced back as far as Plato? That's certainly pre-Christian.
Much of the vocabulary used by Coptics was derived from the neo platonists and ultimately Back to Plato. Also many ideas were taken from the tradition of Jewish mysticism also older than Christianity and from the mystery religions of the mediterranean also older, however its the mixture of all of these influences that dates Gnosticism to the mid second century, Some works like the Gospel of Thomas could be as early as mid first century. But there is some debate on whether it predates christianity but in any case the coptic gospels by definition dont predate christianity.

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Post by Browlyns » 30 May 2019, 03:00

There's nothing true here. The author is obviously a non Christian trying to debunk the traditional story. In my Christian belief the bible is and will always be correct.

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Post by Anthony__ » 31 May 2019, 14:54

Nothing convinces me about the book. I guess this is a sensitive topic to write us as it is very biased. Although, the author did his research but I don't think it is right.

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Post by Innae » 01 Jun 2019, 12:22

Hmmm...I didn't really get a "hero" feel for Judas as much as a "not as evil as everyone thinks" feel. One thing I feel I have to ask though, many who are reading the book are not Christian, so how can they be being 'swayed'? Perspective is huge with this book. Thanks for stopping in and sharing your opinion with us!
[/quote]

Hmmmm... You don't need to be christian to know the contrast between the bible and this book. The world sees Judas as a traitor so this is definitely tests a widely shared belief. Christian or not you may be phased by the conspiracy. Thanks for replying!

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Post by Laura Bach » 01 Jun 2019, 14:32

The author did his homework properly. However, I am not easily convinced and especially not by one book. If more people support this idea, than I might be interested, but I can think about as only fiction for now.

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Post by Sahansdal » 01 Jun 2019, 15:24

godreaujea wrote:
29 May 2019, 07:15
I believe that with religion, the truth is in the eye of the beholder. By that I mean it can be interpreted in so many ways that there isn’t just one answer. If you want to believe something is true, you can find evidence to support your claim. However I think people must be open to hearing other interpretations as well.
My goal in writing Misreading Judas was to bring as much factual evidence as possible. It is textual analysis, mostly. The Path is One. All description is just dancing around the real Way. It is in truth beyond words, literally.

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Post by Kelyn » 01 Jun 2019, 19:01

Anthony__ wrote:
31 May 2019, 14:54
Nothing convinces me about the book. I guess this is a sensitive topic to write us as it is very biased. Although, the author did his research but I don't think it is right.
It seems many agree with you and yes, the author does seem somewhat biased away from Christianity. Thanks for stopping in and commenting!
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Post by Kelyn » 01 Jun 2019, 19:08

Laura Bach wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 14:32
The author did his homework properly. However, I am not easily convinced and especially not by one book. If more people support this idea, than I might be interested, but I can think about as only fiction for now.
Good point! Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
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Post by Wyland » 03 Jun 2019, 03:10

The book does not portray an accurate picture of the purpose of Christ's mission to save mankind. It's selfish driven and with an agenda to do away with the divinity of Christ.

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Post by Beatus » 03 Jun 2019, 05:21

You are the truth. As a person you have to just be. What would have changed about/inside you if this book is truth/lie? If you want to be a better listener/ employee/father/preacher/person and this book is helping then good. If its the opposite...you know what to do.

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Post by Kelyn » 03 Jun 2019, 16:10

Wyland wrote:
03 Jun 2019, 03:10
The book does not portray an accurate picture of the purpose of Christ's mission to save mankind. It's selfish driven and with an agenda to do away with the divinity of Christ.
He did seem somewhat biased away from Christianity, admittedly. Thanks for your thoughts!
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Post by Kelyn » 03 Jun 2019, 16:17

Beatus wrote:
03 Jun 2019, 05:21
What would have changed about/inside you if this book is truth/lie?
I did find it to be an interesting theory, but did it change me? No. I took it with a grain of salt from the beginning.
If its the opposite...you know what to do.
The first thought that popped into my head was "burn it?" but that was just my sassy brain being facetious. I think having an open mind is a wonderful thing, so reading about and considering alternate theories (as long as you don't just go jump on every single bandwagon) can be not just interesting but, yes, helpful. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts with us!
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