Analyzing: What verse in this book would you challenge or defend?

Use this forum to discuss the May 2019 Book of the month, "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler
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maritzaalston
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Analyzing: What verse in this book would you challenge or defend?

Post by maritzaalston » 11 May 2019, 10:03

In reading this book there were specific verses that the author identified that were inverted. Opposite of what I have learned, contradicting and attempting to put doubt in what they have taught me. Keeping all this in mind I will further analyze the verses the author provided and entertain and challenge his theory. Therefore, I am asking what verse in this book stands out the most for you and what about it do you know makes the most impact and influence you to stand by your belief. The following is an example but not the final determiner for me.

Using New King James Version, Mathew 26:39, The Prayer in the Garden,
He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed saying, “Oh My Father, if it is possible,
let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless not as I will, but as You will.”

Using the Kindle Version of Misreading Judas, Mathew 26:39, Page 35
“Let this cup pass from me.”

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Post by Sahansdal » 12 May 2019, 20:04

maritzaalston wrote:
11 May 2019, 10:03
In reading this book there were specific verses that the author identified that were inverted. Opposite of what I have learned, contradicting and attempting to put doubt in what they have taught me. Keeping all this in mind I will further analyze the verses the author provided and entertain and challenge his theory. Therefore, I am asking what verse in this book stands out the most for you and what about it do you know makes the most impact and influence you to stand by your belief. The following is an example but not the final determiner for me.

Using New King James Version, Mathew 26:39, The Prayer in the Garden,
He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed saying, “Oh My Father, if it is possible,
let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless not as I will, but as You will.”

Using the Kindle Version of Misreading Judas, Mathew 26:39, Page 35
“Let this cup pass from me.”
The parallel verses in one source don't all invert the matching verse in the other. Some are like this one, with key word matches at relatively the same point in the story. Some are identical in wording, sense, and location, like, "The flesh is weak." Some are polar opposites, like the gnostic spiritual 'kiss.' But with all these similarities in sense, or sense inversion, and in the same relative position in the story cannot be coincidence. The only question is which feeds into the other. The key verses are the kiss, "stripped and rising naked," and "Hail, BROTHER !" The first two are spiritual metaphors made into physical events that seem unlikely. (Kissing a well known man to identify him? Running away naked?) The other is a change that only makes sense accommodating the late virgin-birth theology of the proto-orthodoxy: "Hail, MASTER!"

The early Church wanted to hide that there was a successor, James. It worked. What happened to the James of history, well known leader of the Assembly, more known than Jesus in historical accounts?
He became 'Judas' and 'Stephen' (Acts 7) among others - even Jesus himself. All this elaborate and unlikely fiction was intended to discredit the heir to the Assembly leadership and clear the way for the false teaching of the Spouter of Lying, Paul (see Dr. Robert Eisenman).

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Post by diana lowery » 13 May 2019, 06:29

I have not yet read the book, but I appreciate the fact that your past teachings were challenged and that you are willing to give this new interpretation consideration. Based on the verse that you mentioned, I would have to say it looks like taking away the context changes the meaning entirely.

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Post by bb587 » 13 May 2019, 19:36

My husband has recently started reading the bible. He's pointed out quite a few biblical quotes that are taken out of context. Matthew 5 is one that stands out in my mind. Any sentence in that section could be taken out of context and misconstrued to make a different point.

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Post by Ferdinand_otieno » 14 May 2019, 04:35

bb587 wrote:
13 May 2019, 19:36
My husband has recently started reading the bible. He's pointed out quite a few biblical quotes that are taken out of context. Matthew 5 is one that stands out in my mind. Any sentence in that section could be taken out of context and misconstrued to make a different point.
Interpretation of this verse drives me a little nuts seeing that everyone is free to their own understanding of it. :tiphat:

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Post by Stephanie Elizabeth » 14 May 2019, 08:19

Ferdinand_otieno wrote:
14 May 2019, 04:35
bb587 wrote:
13 May 2019, 19:36
My husband has recently started reading the bible. He's pointed out quite a few biblical quotes that are taken out of context. Matthew 5 is one that stands out in my mind. Any sentence in that section could be taken out of context and misconstrued to make a different point.
Interpretation of this verse drives me a little nuts seeing that everyone is free to their own understanding of it. :tiphat:
I agree. That verse has been thoroughly nit-picked, and it obviously gets taken out of context.

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Post by bb587 » 14 May 2019, 08:49

Ferdinand_otieno wrote:
14 May 2019, 04:35
Interpretation of this verse drives me a little nuts seeing that everyone is free to their own understanding of it. :tiphat:
You're kind of missing the point. If you pick one line, such as 5:43 and ignore 5:44, then you would be getting the wrong message.

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Post by Snowflake » 14 May 2019, 09:26

It sounds like this book has an interesting way of interpreting scripture. I can see how both passages mentioned in this thread can be taken out of context when only partially discussed. I think I would find this book very frustrating to read.
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Post by Dragonsend » 14 May 2019, 16:34

"He has raised his heel against me." His version would literally say He has raised Jacob against me. He then says no that meant James, then goes on to say no that's Judas. So the discrepancies in translation here are truly a stretch!! That was truly a head scratcher for me. And many places where it says that Jesus was talking about James. Or Judas. When it clearly says he Jesus. Just for clarity heel and Jacob have similar meanings.
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 :angelic-grayflying:

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Post by Dragonsend » 14 May 2019, 16:37

"He has raised his heel against me." His version would literally say He has raised Jacob against me. He then says no that meant James, then goes on to say no that's Judas. So the discrepancies in translation here are truly a stretch!! That was truly a head scratcher for me. And many places where it says that Jesus was talking about James. Or Judas. When it clearly says he Jesus. Just for clarity heel and Jacob have similar meanings. It's so confusing I can barely write coherently about it!!! :D
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 :angelic-grayflying:

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Post by Sahansdal » 14 May 2019, 16:49

The 'cup' verse is not me interpreting it at all. I was just pointing out similarity of phrasing between gnostic and canon verses. It is to show parity of the two stories, that is all. I was not trying to give new meaning to any. Those lines don't show inversion, but many key lines do, like the kiss and "Hail, Brother!" (Second Apocalypse of James). Even if there was no inversion, the gnostic origin of the Betrayal is apparent. There is a reason it is so. The orthodoxy was trying TO HIDE James.

John 13:18 is a huge verse in the whole analysis. I go into it in nearly a full chapter in my first book, The Bible Says Saviors - Obadiah 1:21. I don't have time or inclination to go over it all again here. Yes, Dragonsend, 'Yacov' and heel share word roots. This is a key verse in seeing that the Betrayal is about JAMES. Dr. Robert Eisenman is the first to show a relation between James and Judas. READ HIS WORK! There is no finer mind at work on ANYTHING than Dr. Eisenman. He is the smartest person I ever met.

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Post by Sahansdal » 14 May 2019, 17:39

Dragonsend wrote:
14 May 2019, 16:37
"He has raised his heel against me." His version would literally say He has raised Jacob against me. He then says no that meant James, then goes on to say no that's Judas. So the discrepancies in translation here are truly a stretch!! That was truly a head scratcher for me. And many places where it says that Jesus was talking about James. Or Judas. When it clearly says he Jesus. Just for clarity heel and Jacob have similar meanings. It's so confusing I can barely write coherently about it!!! :D
You should try reading Dr. Robert Eisenman. He spends about 20 pages just on the confusion around names of disciples and brothers.
Heel and Jacob -Yacov - James all have the same root: 'aqeb' -- Hebrew for heel. I think john chose this Tanak reverent to make a conscious play on Judas as James. Eisenman wrote a 1,000 page book on the minimization of James in the Gospels and Acts. James the Brother of Jesus is the greatest literary achievement of the Twentieth Century.

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Post by Sahansdal » 14 May 2019, 17:43

Dragonsend wrote:
14 May 2019, 16:37
"He has raised his heel against me." His version would literally say He has raised Jacob against me. He then says no that meant James, then goes on to say no that's Judas. So the discrepancies in translation here are truly a stretch!! That was truly a head scratcher for me. And many places where it says that Jesus was talking about James. Or Judas. When it clearly says he Jesus. Just for clarity heel and Jacob have similar meanings. It's so confusing I can barely write coherently about it!!! :D
referent

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Post by Kibetious » 16 May 2019, 04:24

maritzaalston wrote:
11 May 2019, 10:03
In reading this book there were specific verses that the author identified that were inverted. Opposite of what I have learned, contradicting and attempting to put doubt in what they have taught me. Keeping all this in mind I will further analyze the verses the author provided and entertain and challenge his theory. Therefore, I am asking what verse in this book stands out the most for you and what about it do you know makes the most impact and influence you to stand by your belief. The following is an example but not the final determiner for me.

Using New King James Version, Mathew 26:39, The Prayer in the Garden,
He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed saying, “Oh My Father, if it is possible,
let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless not as I will, but as You will.”

Using the Kindle Version of Misreading Judas, Mathew 26:39, Page 35
“Let this cup pass from me.”
Such an alteration changes everything in the scriptures and distorts what really was said. I have also not read the book and hence my contribution will be limited. However, the fact that any major word changes or taking scripture out of context changes its meaning entirely cannot be ignored.
​​​​​​He gives strength to those who are tired; to the ones who lack power, he gives renewed energy :techie-studyinggray:

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Post by Ferdinand_otieno » 17 May 2019, 09:30

:tiphat:
Kibetious wrote:
16 May 2019, 04:24
maritzaalston wrote:
11 May 2019, 10:03
In reading this book there were specific verses that the author identified that were inverted. Opposite of what I have learned, contradicting and attempting to put doubt in what they have taught me. Keeping all this in mind I will further analyze the verses the author provided and entertain and challenge his theory. Therefore, I am asking what verse in this book stands out the most for you and what about it do you know makes the most impact and influence you to stand by your belief. The following is an example but not the final determiner for me.

Using New King James Version, Mathew 26:39, The Prayer in the Garden,
He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed saying, “Oh My Father, if it is possible,
let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless not as I will, but as You will.”

Using the Kindle Version of Misreading Judas, Mathew 26:39, Page 35
“Let this cup pass from me.”
Such an alteration changes everything in the scriptures and distorts what really was said. I have also not read the book and hence my contribution will be limited. However, the fact that any major word changes or taking scripture out of context changes its meaning entirely cannot be ignored.

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