What is your opinion on the author using the apocrypha?

Use this forum to discuss the May 2019 Book of the month, "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler
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Kibetious
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Re: What is your opinion on the author using the apocrypha?

Post by Kibetious » 16 May 2019, 04:15

Of course, from the onset it is about Judas, and so he does rely on this text so much. I am not sure if it can give the right account since we only have it alone as the main reference.
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Post by Ferdinand_otieno » 17 May 2019, 09:32

Kibetious wrote:
16 May 2019, 04:15
Of course, from the onset it is about Judas, and so he does rely on this text so much. I am not sure if it can give the right account since we only have it alone as the main reference.
He uniquely selects quotes he can analyse and convert to spread his 'understanding' of the book. I am not a big fan of the author.

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Post by VernaVi » 17 May 2019, 17:37

There is a lot of the bible that has been lost to history.That said, it doesn't mean the world should authenticate something like the Gospel of Judas(problematic and unverifiable when compared against the other Gospels).
Apocrypha has it's own set of problems all on it's own.
The Bible however, as it stands now, has been proven by science, archeology, and authenticated by comparing already historically verified texts from more than one source.
This was a great question.

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Post by Catherine Amarachi » 19 May 2019, 14:11

The author purposely relied only on the gospel of Judas because he was trying to prove a point from Judas perspective, I'm sure he wouldn't like to contradict himself so he avoided other gospels and books in the Bible.

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Post by nooregano » 21 May 2019, 01:53

Sushan wrote:
08 May 2019, 09:59
Putting more weight to a single source seems unfair in this sort of an encounter. Yet, it is considered as apocrypha because it is thrown away from the bible and we do not know whether it was a sincere action or some covert move
This is a great comment, very even-handed and thoughtful.
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Post by Washboard » 23 May 2019, 23:18

A G Darr wrote:
05 May 2019, 16:44
I didn't have a problem with the author using apocrypha. There are a lot of books left out of the Bible. It is hard to say which books were left out because they are false and which were left out because they did not align with the Church's agenda. That is not to say I totally believe the "Gospel of Judas" is a true gospel, but I also do not completely discredit it.
I suspect the author would make the arguement that it is true gospel, and it was left out of the Bible because of the Church's agenda. But who knows for sure?
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Post by esp1975 » 24 May 2019, 11:31

You cannot be a serious scholar of Christianity without reading Apocrypha. There were MANY gospels written. Only four were chosen to be in the cannon. Early Christian Popes and Bishops decided on the cannon (generally in the 4th Century CE). But even as late at the 8th Century CE, at the Second Council of Nicea, bits of the Christian religion were still be argued - I believe in the Sun (as opposed to Son), or I believe in John the Baptist (because if he could baptize Christ, should he be greater than Christ?).
As for the reliance of this book on the Gospel of Judas - well, yes. That's the whole point of the book. Much like with the Dead Sea Scrolls, we have no idea of the early Christian leaders had ever seen this Gospel, to choose to put it in the cannon or not. The whole purpose of this book was that with the discovery and translation of the Gospel of Judas in modern times, it should cause Biblical scholars to do a re-evaluation of their beliefs.
And while I think for those who are actually studying the Bible as history, that might be an argument that has merit. For those who deeply believe, there is always going to be able to be the argument that the Gospel of Judas, known or unknown at the time the cannon was being determined, is not in the Bible because God did not want it so.

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Post by colorsparkle » 26 May 2019, 09:09

He was probably unable to find enough support for his argument in the Bible, so he turned to the Gospel of Judas for extra back up.

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Post by iced_sunshine » 26 May 2019, 09:58

I think he does what he can to create a wholesome narrative. And judging by the fact that the other gospels don't tell much of Judas' story, I think it's only right that he turned to the Gospel of Judas to flesh out his narrative.

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Post by SorcPenz » 26 May 2019, 15:09

That's a good point. By relying so much on the Gospel of Judas, he only convinces those who value that Gospel, not those who value the other gospels. I thought it was funny that he relied on Judas's own words to prove that Judas wasn't a betrayer. Of course a man would not write himself as the villain. I value all the Gospels out of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the newly discovered ones that have been less tainted from translations through multiple languages and edits. But even I saw the hypocrisy of relying on the accused's story to prove he was innocent all along.

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Post by Amanda Newton » 28 May 2019, 22:06

At first I was not familiar with the Apocrypha prior to this book. However I looked it up and found that -- "The Old Testament Apocrypha consists of eleven or twelve books, depending upon how they are divided, that the Roman Catholic Church adds to the Old Testament. The Protestants reject these books as Holy Scripture." Because of this, it seems to me that a lot of them being left out is up to personal preference. Someone looked at it and decided they didn't like it. My mother in law always says that when someone upsets you there is a phrase taking your ball and going home. It seems like this is what happened, they got upset by the books so they went home and left them. So why should we judge it as inappropriate or wrong? Doesn't that just make us as judgmental as the ones who left it out? And the Bible does say to not judge.

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Post by beccabecky » 29 May 2019, 00:36

It's interesting that he does it, as it creates further debate and controversy in this way. One cannot help but wonder if this was the author's intent in a way.

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Post by astueve » 29 May 2019, 12:41

Lhisa wrote:
08 May 2019, 15:08
I have mixed feelings about the author's use of apocrypha in the books. As many of you have mentioned, many books were omitted from the Bible and if they are true works then it would be an injustice not to include them and use them as evidence to answer questions that many Christians have. On the other hand however, there is the possibility that these works were not inspired by God. In the case that this is true, it would make all his arguments equivalent to a house built upon sand.
Yes, this was similar to my initial reaction. There are certainly valid reasons to consider books that have been omitted from the Bible. As you alluded to, some books were left out not because they contradicted anything taught by the Church but simply because they were not considered inspired writings. Although, I'm sure some books were left out because they contradicted what the Church wanted to teach. But they "apocrypha" still have a lot of value in terms of being historical documents and even spiritual documents. And obviously, as several people have mentioned, the author used the "Gospel of Judas" because it was central to his study of the life of Judas.

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Post by kdstrack » 01 Jun 2019, 17:31

He does rely heavily on the apocryphal books, although he does reference other sources. There are clear reasons why these books were not included in the canon. The apocryphal books do not have the same weight and authority as the Bible.

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Post by Wyland » 03 Jun 2019, 03:38

He relies a lot on it because there is no where he tries to cross-reference to prove that this book is in harmony with the other books. I think this is further proof that there is something wrong with the book.

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