What is your opinion on the author using the apocrypha?

Use this forum to discuss the May 2019 Book of the month, "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler
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mariana90
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Re: What is your opinion on the author using the apocrypha?

Post by mariana90 »

Practically his whole thesis is based on it, so it's only natural he relies heavily on it. Whatever the reader believes of the veracity of the text, it is clear the author puts his trust on it.
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Post by Sahansdal »

mariana90 wrote: 03 Jul 2019, 21:06 Practically his whole thesis is based on it, so it's only natural he relies heavily on it. Whatever the reader believes of the veracity of the text, it is clear the author puts his trust on it.
Read Dr. Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus. This will level the playing field.

https://www.amazon.com/Historicity-Jesu ... 268&sr=1-1
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Post by Crazyreader01 »

A G Darr wrote: 05 May 2019, 16:44 I didn't have a problem with the author using apocrypha. There are a lot of books left out of the Bible. It is hard to say which books were left out because they are false and which were left out because they did not align with the Church's agenda. That is not to say I totally believe the "Gospel of Judas" is a true gospel, but I also do not completely discredit it.
Yes, there have been many things left out or ignored by the Church, but at the same time, that does not give it creditability. I guess it's something that everyone just has to judge for themselves.
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Post by mariana90 »

Sahansdal wrote: 05 Jul 2019, 15:01
mariana90 wrote: 03 Jul 2019, 21:06 Practically his whole thesis is based on it, so it's only natural he relies heavily on it. Whatever the reader believes of the veracity of the text, it is clear the author puts his trust on it.
Read Dr. Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus. This will level the playing field.

https://www.amazon.com/Historicity-Jesu ... 268&sr=1-1
Seems interesting, thanks for the recommendation!

To be clear though, I'm not putting into question the veracity of the apocrypha, I don't know enough to have an informed opinion about it.
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Post by Sahansdal »

mariana90 wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 17:55
Sahansdal wrote: 05 Jul 2019, 15:01
mariana90 wrote: 03 Jul 2019, 21:06 Practically his whole thesis is based on it, so it's only natural he relies heavily on it. Whatever the reader believes of the veracity of the text, it is clear the author puts his trust on it.
Read Dr. Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus. This will level the playing field.

https://www.amazon.com/Historicity-Jesu ... 268&sr=1-1
Seems interesting, thanks for the recommendation!

To be clear though, I'm not putting into question the veracity of the apocrypha, I don't know enough to have an informed opinion about it.
You don't need to know anything about religion, apocrypha, ancient texts, mysticism, my beliefs, others beliefs, or any comparative religion to do just what I did. It is a simple comparison of the ancient texts and what they say about each other.
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Post by Kansas City Teacher »

I think he chose the Gospel of Judas and went into it in detail to prove his point. As previous posters have pointed out, there are several books that were not included in the Bible. If he went into details about some of the other books, the book would have been very long. If you research some of the other books found in Egypt, there are videos explaining them. I felt the need to do this after reading this book.
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Post by Sahansdal »

Kansas City Teacher wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:04 I think he chose the Gospel of Judas and went into it in detail to prove his point. As previous posters have pointed out, there are several books that were not included in the Bible. If he went into details about some of the other books, the book would have been very long. If you research some of the other books found in Egypt, there are videos explaining them. I felt the need to do this after reading this book.
Just as important as what I found in the Nag Hammadi/Al Minya gnostic collection is what Dr. Robert Eisenman found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I met him. He is the smartest person I ever met, judging from what he has written. Talk about books that make you think! He still awes me years since I finished reading everything he has written, twice! I even read his poetry. The man is brilliant, and very modest, given how he has been treated by other, so-called, scholars. http://roberteisenman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jes ... pd_sim_b_2

Paul is the Essene "Spouter of Lying" and James, not Jesus, the "Righteous Teacher." Where, oh where, is 'Jesus'? This was an orthodox coverup. Nearly all the characters in the Gospels are fictional. Read Carrier. I am looking at his chapter on Jairus' daughter and the water miracles, sourced in the O. T.
"On the Historicity of Jesus" by Dr. Richard Carrier.
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Post by Kansas City Teacher »

Sahansdal wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:22
Kansas City Teacher wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:04 I think he chose the Gospel of Judas and went into it in detail to prove his point. As previous posters have pointed out, there are several books that were not included in the Bible. If he went into details about some of the other books, the book would have been very long. If you research some of the other books found in Egypt, there are videos explaining them. I felt the need to do this after reading this book.
Just as important as what I found in the Nag Hammadi/Al Minya gnostic collection is what Dr. Robert Eisenman found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I met him. He is the smartest person I ever met, judging from what he has written. Talk about books that make you think! He still awes me years since I finished reading everything he has written, twice! I even read his poetry. The man is brilliant, and very modest, given how he has been treated by other, so-called, scholars. http://roberteisenman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jes ... pd_sim_b_2

Paul is the Essene "Spouter of Lying" and James, not Jesus, the "Righteous Teacher." Where, oh where, is 'Jesus'? This was an orthodox coverup. Nearly all the characters in the Gospels are fictional. Read Carrier. I am looking at his chapter on Jairus' daughter and the water miracles, sourced in the O. T.
"On the Historicity of Jesus" by Dr. Richard Carrier.
Thank you for the information. Dr. Eisenman does sound very accomplished and smart. His interview was one of the documentaries I watched.
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Post by Sahansdal »

Kansas City Teacher wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:38
Sahansdal wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:22
Kansas City Teacher wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:04 I think he chose the Gospel of Judas and went into it in detail to prove his point. As previous posters have pointed out, there are several books that were not included in the Bible. If he went into details about some of the other books, the book would have been very long. If you research some of the other books found in Egypt, there are videos explaining them. I felt the need to do this after reading this book.
Just as important as what I found in the Nag Hammadi/Al Minya gnostic collection is what Dr. Robert Eisenman found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I met him. He is the smartest person I ever met, judging from what he has written. Talk about books that make you think! He still awes me years since I finished reading everything he has written, twice! I even read his poetry. The man is brilliant, and very modest, given how he has been treated by other, so-called, scholars. http://roberteisenman.com/

http://www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jes ... pd_sim_b_2

Paul is the Essene "Spouter of Lying" and James, not Jesus, the "Righteous Teacher." Where, oh where, is 'Jesus'? This was an orthodox coverup. Nearly all the characters in the Gospels are fictional. Read Carrier. I am looking at his chapter on Jairus' daughter and the water miracles, sourced in the O. T.
"On the Historicity of Jesus" by Dr. Richard Carrier.
Thank you for the information. Dr. Eisenman does sound very accomplished and smart. His interview was one of the documentaries I watched.
Even if one is not religious I have found that one can learn how to think from him, how to analyze and make sense of difficult or obscure writings. It is absolutely fascinating, I think! I learned how to compare texts from him. I always have and still do wonder why he himself never investigated the "Betrayal" more thoroughly. The Apocalypses are obviously related.
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Post by Heatholt »

I think if you see religious texts as the Holy word of God, then I can see why you feel he relies on this too much. The gospel of Judas is not accepted in the same way as other texts in religious circles. However, if you see all religious texts from a more historical approach then I see no reason why he can't rely on the Gospel of Judas.
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Post by Sahansdal »

Heatholt wrote: 09 Jul 2019, 19:53 I think if you see religious texts as the Holy word of God, then I can see why you feel he relies on this too much. The gospel of Judas is not accepted in the same way as other texts in religious circles. However, if you see all religious texts from a more historical approach then I see no reason why he can't rely on the Gospel of Judas.
It depends on what religious circles you mean. I am a Satsangi with the Radha Soami Satsang Beas. It has probably two million members now. That's a 'circle' and a big one. Recent Masters and their disciples wrote several books analyzing the mysticism of the New and Old Testaments. They taught me. >
https://www.amazon.com/Mystic-Bible-Ran ... stic+bible
http://www.scienceofthesoul.org/product_p/en-057-0.htm
http://www.scienceofthesoul.org/product_p/en-056-0.htm
https://www.scribd.com/doc/30321660/Jul ... he-Masters
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Post by ayomie »

Since the apocrypha is not a canonical scripture, I don't trust its source. Therefore it seems to be biased to me
“I have experienced many times
since then that I don’t always have
to prove I’m right to win at the
game of life."
Rob White
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Post by Sahansdal »

ayomie wrote: 10 Jul 2019, 17:14 Since the apocrypha is not a canonical scripture, I don't trust its source. Therefore it seems to be biased to me
What is it about the canon that makes it trustworthy? -the author
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Post by Areej Tahir »

Sushan wrote: 08 May 2019, 09:59 Putting more weight to a single source seems unfair in this sort of an encounter. Yet, it is considered as apocrypha because it is thrown away from the bible and we do not know whether it was a sincere action or some covert move
agreed!
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Post by Sahansdal »

Areej Tahir wrote: 16 Jul 2019, 09:07
Sushan wrote: 08 May 2019, 09:59 Putting more weight to a single source seems unfair in this sort of an encounter. Yet, it is considered as apocrypha because it is thrown away from the bible and we do not know whether it was a sincere action or some covert move
agreed!
Yes, we do know. I show why the gnostic Nag Hammadi/Al Minya (Gospel of Judas) texts were the original writings. The Bible is derived and false. It only takes simple comparing, and a little basic logic. I take the reader through the few necessary steps very carefully and patiently. Sorry to those who missed the idea.
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