The author's inspiration.

Use this forum to discuss the May 2019 Book of the month, "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler
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Sahansdal
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Re: The author's inspiration.

Post by Sahansdal » 13 Jun 2019, 16:16

56lives wrote:
10 Jun 2019, 04:52
His inspiration is to know the truth. He has it, twisted or not. It is up to individuals whether to accept it or not.
The 'twist' is what the Gospel authors did to the gnostic succession story.

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Post by Sahansdal » 13 Jun 2019, 16:21

I don't understand all the resistance. The Gospel story makes no sense on several levels.What about all the souls DEAD before Christ came to save EVERYONE? Does that make any sense at all? Or that the Romans, who saw Jesus every day, needed a kiss to have him identified to them? Or that the dead came out of tombs to walk around (why is anybody's guess), or that the sky went dark, and earthquakes shook, or any number of improbable events. This is all too much to accept.

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Post by Sahansdal » 13 Jun 2019, 16:32

jlrinc wrote:
29 May 2019, 23:55
What the author misses is that We know who "the one who bears me is" It is written in the first epistle of John 4/ [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.Already when this letter was written there were people who believed that Jesus was not God until he was baptized by John the Baptist. Then the spirit of Christ began to dwell in Jesus. They believed that he only seemed to have died but the spirit left his body when he was on the cross. they were called docetics from the greek dokein "to seem" But for orthodox christians Jesus was fully human and really died. So when Jesus tells Judas he" will sacrifice the one who bears me" He means the flesh that he lives in. in other words Judas will betray the flesh body that bears his spirit, the Christ from the pleronoma. Judas is only handing over the body that christ dwells in sothe cross is not going to kill him. Judas knows this before hand. If he meant Judas It would have been much easier to say to "Judas you are going to sacrifice yourself" you have to do some linguistic gymnastics to get the one who bears me to mean judas.
No you don't. You just have to read the question Judas asks Jesus just before his answer. It's on the page before his answer: page 55.

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Post by Sahansdal » 13 Jun 2019, 16:38

Sahansdal wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 16:32
jlrinc wrote:
29 May 2019, 23:55
What the author misses is that We know who "the one who bears me is" It is written in the first epistle of John 4/ [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.Already when this letter was written there were people who believed that Jesus was not God until he was baptized by John the Baptist. Then the spirit of Christ began to dwell in Jesus. They believed that he only seemed to have died but the spirit left his body when he was on the cross. they were called docetics from the greek dokein "to seem" But for orthodox christians Jesus was fully human and really died. So when Jesus tells Judas he" will sacrifice the one who bears me" He means the flesh that he lives in. in other words Judas will betray the flesh body that bears his spirit, the Christ from the pleronoma. Judas is only handing over the body that christ dwells in sothe cross is not going to kill him. Judas knows this before hand. If he meant Judas It would have been much easier to say to "Judas you are going to sacrifice yourself" you have to do some linguistic gymnastics to get the one who bears me to mean judas.
No you don't. You just have to read the question Judas asks Jesus just before his answer. It's on the page before his answer: page 55.
jlrinc,
You are doing what I warn against in the book: you import a New Testament bias into it. Pretend this came first. It did, anyway. Now it will make sense. Why is there no Matthias at 36.1? It is because he was unknown when the Gospel of Judas was conceived (not the same as when this Coptic copy was written. The original was in Greek.).

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Post by VernaVi » 13 Jun 2019, 17:18

I'm not sure what the author's inspiration was in writing this book. The message of the book is a negative attack on Christianity and the Gospels (in particular it seemed focused strongly in its attack on Christ Himself), so it must have been dislike for Him on a personal level.

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Post by Sahansdal » 13 Jun 2019, 17:41

VernaVi wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 17:18
I'm not sure what the author's inspiration was in writing this book. The message of the book is a negative attack on Christianity and the Gospels (in particular it seemed focused strongly in its attack on Christ Himself), so it must have been dislike for Him on a personal level.
I dislike people who lie. That's why I oppose the Church, promoting falsehoods about spirituality, and real Masters. - the Author.

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Post by Robyn_original » 14 Jun 2019, 06:41

I feel like he just wanted to put something controversial out there. He seems to have an interest in religion, and maybe just wanted to put the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak. Controversy is great for exposure, and Christianity is a prime target for anything controversial. It's guaranteed to get people's backs up. And maybe he just wanted people to look at things differently.

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Post by Sahansdal » 14 Jun 2019, 09:06

Robyn_original wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 06:41
I feel like he just wanted to put something controversial out there. He seems to have an interest in religion, and maybe just wanted to put the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak. Controversy is great for exposure, and Christianity is a prime target for anything controversial. It's guaranteed to get people's backs up. And maybe he just wanted people to look at things differently.
Mroooowww!

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Post by jlrinc » 14 Jun 2019, 10:23

Sahansdal wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 16:38
Sahansdal wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 16:32
jlrinc wrote:
29 May 2019, 23:55
What the author misses is that We know who "the one who bears me is" It is written in the first epistle of John 4/ [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.Already when this letter was written there were people who believed that Jesus was not God until he was baptized by John the Baptist. Then the spirit of Christ began to dwell in Jesus. They believed that he only seemed to have died but the spirit left his body when he was on the cross. they were called docetics from the greek dokein "to seem" But for orthodox christians Jesus was fully human and really died. So when Jesus tells Judas he" will sacrifice the one who bears me" He means the flesh that he lives in. in other words Judas will betray the flesh body that bears his spirit, the Christ from the pleronoma. Judas is only handing over the body that christ dwells in sothe cross is not going to kill him. Judas knows this before hand. If he meant Judas It would have been much easier to say to "Judas you are going to sacrifice yourself" you have to do some linguistic gymnastics to get the one who bears me to mean judas.
No you don't. You just have to read the question Judas asks Jesus just before his answer. It's on the page before his answer: page 55.
jlrinc,
You are doing what I warn against in the book: you import a New Testament bias into it. Pretend this came first. It did, anyway. Now it will make sense. Why is there no Matthias at 36.1? It is because he was unknown when the Gospel of Judas was conceived (not the same as when this Coptic copy was written. The original was in Greek.).
Its not a new testament bias its a known gnostic doctrine. Its mentioned in the new testament as a heresy. John calls these people antichrists. I mentioned the new testament to show how early the gnostics who held this view existed. The reason that Gospel of Judas is later is that is a narrative. the earliest gospels appear to have been collections of sayings to which narratives were added later. such as Q and the gospel of Thomas. Also why is it that no other gnostic text tries to disguise James? The early Christians try to write him out because he competes with them for followers, there is no reason for any gnostic writer to disguise James. Look at the prominence of James in the Nag Hammadi. He is written in front and center in virtually every gnostic document that names him. The gospel of Judas may be a reductio ad absurdum to show the logical outcome of believing that jesus was God. I agree that Matthias is problematic, hell the whole twelve disciple thing is problematic. Whether or not Judas existed is a problem but there isnt enough evidence to connect him to James. Stephen Yes, Beloved disciple yes, nicodemus, yes, Lazarus maybe,righteous teacher from dead sea scrolls doubtful, Judas no. Eisenman had some brilliant ideas but he takes them further than the evidence will bear. All you have to do is show me another gnostic document which disguises james under a different name. BTW I think youre a good writer but your ideas arent well supported by the existing documents. With solid scholarship you could make an impact. Your intuitions concerning spirituality may be correct but your trying to justify them with unrelated and unsupported reasoning.

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Post by jlrinc » 14 Jun 2019, 10:25

Sahansdal wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 16:21
I don't understand all the resistance. The Gospel story makes no sense on several levels.What about all the souls DEAD before Christ came to save EVERYONE? Does that make any sense at all? Or that the Romans, who saw Jesus every day, needed a kiss to have him identified to them? Or that the dead came out of tombs to walk around (why is anybody's guess), or that the sky went dark, and earthquakes shook, or any number of improbable events. This is all too much to accept.
You are right these stories make very little sense. But that is not evidence that supports your position.

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Post by Sahansdal » 14 Jun 2019, 10:45

jlrinc wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 10:25
Sahansdal wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 16:21
I don't understand all the resistance. The Gospel story makes no sense on several levels.What about all the souls DEAD before Christ came to save EVERYONE? Does that make any sense at all? Or that the Romans, who saw Jesus every day, needed a kiss to have him identified to them? Or that the dead came out of tombs to walk around (why is anybody's guess), or that the sky went dark, and earthquakes shook, or any number of improbable events. This is all too much to accept.
You are right these stories make very little sense. But that is not evidence that supports your position.
I don't mean to say that they did. I just point out that I don't see why people accept with so little questioning, what the New Testament says. You'll notice I don't call out the Old Testament. It is only the New that is problematic. It dosn't belong with the Old in any way.

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Post by Bretagne » 18 Jun 2019, 16:22

I think the author shares this information for any number of reasons. A few that immediately come to mind are:

He mentions towards the end how this truth is vital for redemption, so maybe it his way of getting people to think about it.

Another is that, as a scholar who spent time pouring his efforts into this, it probably stands to believe he wants to have someone else appreciate his work, too.

He certainly got people talking about this theory, and that alone may have been inspiration enough.

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Post by Sahansdal » 18 Jun 2019, 21:10

Bretagne wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 16:22
I think the author shares this information for any number of reasons. A few that immediately come to mind are:

He mentions towards the end how this truth is vital for redemption, so maybe it his way of getting people to think about it.

Another is that, as a scholar who spent time pouring his efforts into this, it probably stands to believe he wants to have someone else appreciate his work, too.

He certainly got people talking about this theory, and that alone may have been inspiration enough.
Cool. Thanks for that. Did you post a review on Amazon?

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Post by Bretagne » 19 Jun 2019, 09:24

Sahansdal wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 21:10
Bretagne wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 16:22
I think the author shares this information for any number of reasons. A few that immediately come to mind are:

He mentions towards the end how this truth is vital for redemption, so maybe it his way of getting people to think about it.

Another is that, as a scholar who spent time pouring his efforts into this, it probably stands to believe he wants to have someone else appreciate his work, too.

He certainly got people talking about this theory, and that alone may have been inspiration enough.
Cool. Thanks for that. Did you post a review on Amazon?
I submitted one yesterday. :)

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Post by Sahansdal » 19 Jun 2019, 13:13

Bretagne wrote:
19 Jun 2019, 09:24
Sahansdal wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 21:10
Bretagne wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 16:22
I think the author shares this information for any number of reasons. A few that immediately come to mind are:

He mentions towards the end how this truth is vital for redemption, so maybe it his way of getting people to think about it.

Another is that, as a scholar who spent time pouring his efforts into this, it probably stands to believe he wants to have someone else appreciate his work, too.

He certainly got people talking about this theory, and that alone may have been inspiration enough.
Cool. Thanks for that. Did you post a review on Amazon?
I submitted one yesterday. :)
My sincerest thanks!

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