Overall rating and opinion of "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler

Use this forum to discuss the May 2019 Book of the month, "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler
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THarveyReadALot
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Re: Overall rating and opinion of "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler

Post by THarveyReadALot » 11 Jun 2019, 20:31

Whoever,
I don't 'just believe' the Bible. It has been proven. I'm pretty sure there are more manuscripts for the Bible than other ancient works. The Gnostic Gospels aren't true. It's that simple.
Check out: https://carm.org/manuscript-evidence for a chart of info on old Manuscripts.
Sincerely,
Theresa Harvey
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P.S. I didn't finish the book.

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Post by Frisca » 13 Jun 2019, 00:59

I'm sorry but the book, for me, was not interesting at all. I tried reading it three or four times and I just couldn't get into it. I am not even sure what they are trying to imply. Is there a message? A revelation? Anything that might interest those who have no clue who Judas is? The way it is written has no order as he gets into other gospels that a lot people do not know. I think if the author had introduced where he gathered his in information and then explained his reason to believe his claim maybe one who has no knowledge of what he writes about would at least try to follow. People are too quick to make a movement with no order and for no reason others follow. Not that I hadn't heard their claim before, I have yet to be convinced of where they come up with absurd claims.

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Post by jlrinc » 13 Jun 2019, 04:02

Sahansdal wrote:
06 Jun 2019, 09:29
jlrinc wrote:
06 Jun 2019, 06:12
Sahansdal wrote:
10 May 2019, 22:54

You are evidently not aware that the consensus view now is that none of the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses. It would not be likely in any event, because life-expectancy in those days was something like 40 years. So they would have to have been little kids following Jesus around. Kids fluent and literate in excellent Greek, which is even less likely.
No, the life expectancy those days. Was not 40 years.. The average life expectancy was 40 years. What's the difference? The average life expectancy includes the high prevalence of children who died before turning 5. This brings the average life expectancy way down because children had a high likelihood of dying of diseases before antibiotics and vaccines were available. The truth is that if you made it to18 your life expectancy was about the same as it is now, high 70s and probably hasn't changed much in 15000 years. This 40 year old thing is a pernicious myth.How long did they expect to live on biblical times? There is a verse in psalms that says the number of the days of a mans life is 70 years and if by reason of strength what boast is there of that? So they expected to live to be about seventy or eighty. The gerousia of Athens at about the same time was a council of elders who were at least 60 to be eligible so they had about the same life expectancy. And modern archeological evidence points to the same.
Itinerant fishermen didn't speak (or write!) the kind of classic Greek that the Gospel authors used. They were master wordsmiths, not experts with nets. No one knows who wrote the Gospels, all of them, even gnostic.
The gospels were not written in classical Greek, they were written in koine Greek. This was the Greek used by everyday people everywhere Alexander the great had conquered. The fisherman almost certainly knew it as it made made communicating much easier but they almost certainly couldn't read or write. In fact the finest Greek written in the new testament occurs in the epistle of James.

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Post by jlrinc » 13 Jun 2019, 04:10

The disciples were not itinerant fishermen. The word itinerant means wandering the disciples were not wandering fishermen they fished the Galilean sea. Itinerant fisherman would have been wealthy men who could afford a boat that would have been docked in the Mediterranean sea. Almost everybody in that area spoke at least a little koine Greek the language of the gospels because it was the language that merchants used . koine means common because is it is not the classical Greek of homer and Plato but a much simplified form used for buying and selling and spread everywhere Alexander conquered.

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Post by Sahansdal » 13 Jun 2019, 11:57

Frisca wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 00:59
I'm sorry but the book, for me, was not interesting at all. I tried reading it three or four times and I just couldn't get into it. I am not even sure what they are trying to imply. Is there a message? A revelation? Anything that might interest those who have no clue who Judas is? The way it is written has no order as he gets into other gospels that a lot people do not know. I think if the author had introduced where he gathered his in information and then explained his reason to believe his claim maybe one who has no knowledge of what he writes about would at least try to follow. People are too quick to make a movement with no order and for no reason others follow. Not that I hadn't heard their claim before, I have yet to be convinced of where they come up with absurd claims.
And these comments somehow do not apply to the NT Gospels? Why do they always get a pass as genuine history, when none of these sources even try to be? Including the gnostic ones! This is literature, not history.

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Post by Sahansdal » 13 Jun 2019, 14:18

Sahansdal wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 11:58
jlrinc wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 04:10
The disciples were not itinerant fishermen. The word itinerant means wandering the disciples were not wandering fishermen they fished the Galilean sea. Itinerant fisherman would have been wealthy men who could afford a boat that would have been docked in the Mediterranean sea. Almost everybody in that area spoke at least a little koine Greek the language of the gospels because it was the language that merchants used . koine means common because is it is not the classical Greek of homer and Plato but a much simplified form used for buying and selling and spread everywhere Alexander conquered.
So what does that change? These are invented characters, maybe based on real people, but they didn't write the Gospels.

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Post by MatereF » 14 Jun 2019, 13:25

While there have been many who have questioned whether Judas was destined to be the one to betray Jesus and whether there was anything he could have done to prevent it. This book gives us a fresh perspective on the issue.As a person who actively practices the Christian faith, i have always believed that what Judas did was meant to happen for Jesus to die and for us to receive our redemption.
"The courage to imagine the otherwise is our greatest resource". Daniel J Boorstin

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Post by Sahansdal » 14 Jun 2019, 17:30

MatereF wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 13:25
While there have been many who have questioned whether Judas was destined to be the one to betray Jesus and whether there was anything he could have done to prevent it. This book gives us a fresh perspective on the issue.As a person who actively practices the Christian faith, i have always believed that what Judas did was meant to happen for Jesus to die and for us to receive our redemption.
Did you read the book? NO ONE needs to die to save you. Mark 10:45 (The Son comes "to give his life a ransom for many") is completely misread. Masters come all the time and save by giving Life, not their death. A death ransom would have been "for all" -- whether accepted as such or not. Jesus never said he came to save everyone for all time. In fact he says in several places just the opposite. John 6:40 says one must "SEE" the Master to be saved. John 9:4 and 5 in the original C. Sinaiticus text says, "WE must do the works of him who sent US while living. AS LONG AS I am in world, I am the Light of the world" and John 14:7 qualifies 14:6 to those present ONLY: "Now you know him, AND HAVE SEEN HIM" who is "the Way, the Truth and the Life." So, like I say, read the red-letter only and separate these quotes of a Master (likely James, not Jesus) from the narrative, which is Church propaganda.

Here is what a real Master says that John says, and it will be a real eye-opener:
http://www.scienceofthesoul.org/product_p/en-056-0.htm
Matthew:
http://www.scienceofthesoul.org/product_p/en-057-0.htm
The Science of the Soul.org library is books by and about real recent Masters, many in their own words, in English, printed at cost & shipped free. http://www.scienceofthesoul.org/

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Post by Sahansdal » 14 Jun 2019, 20:57

elizaron878 wrote:
11 May 2019, 14:18
The book sounds rather controversial, and one wonders what the author's true intentions are.When all is said and done,matters of faith is like falling g in love.Deeply personal.
My intention is to introduce the correct interpretation and contextualizing of newly discovered ancient texts from Egypt and Jordan: the Nag Hammadi/Al Minya Library, and the Dead Sea Scrolls, respectively.

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Post by C-obi » 15 Jun 2019, 11:35

I believe that the book will go a long way in testing the weights of what we truly believe in.

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Post by Sahansdal » 15 Jun 2019, 23:27

C-obi wrote:
15 Jun 2019, 11:35
I believe that the book will go a long way in testing the weights of what we truly believe in.
Thanks, C obi. Consider a review on Amazon? You would be #20...

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Post by Renee_Prior1995 » 16 Jun 2019, 13:39

Samy Lax wrote:
01 May 2019, 23:07
The author presents some interesting arguments throughout the book. However, this is not a genre I am interested in. And that means that I might not be the right person to rate this either. However, those who want to know more about Jesus and Judas might greatly enjoy reading this one!
I agree with your reply. I am also not generally interested in this topic but I do sometimes like to read them to expand my knowledge on the subject.
"From what I have tasted of desire,
I hold those who favor fire.
but if I had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate.
To say that the destruction of ice is also great
and will suffice." - Robert Frost

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Post by mwanikikelvin » 18 Jun 2019, 02:37

I found the book quite interesting and also a bit thought-provoking. I found this book to be a book that any reader who wants to read an interesting book should really try this.

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Post by ahegdahl » 18 Jun 2019, 17:23

srividyag1 wrote:
01 May 2019, 21:14
I was born into a religion with a multitude of gods. I’ve always been curious about Christianity and its history; the role it played in shaping the world’s history. I gather that what the author deals with in this book is a very controversial topic. When I read the sample, it consisted of mostly reviews from other publications. Yet, the introduction itself reads like a research paper. I am curious about how mysticism and Christian beliefs are linked. I am interested in reading this book because I like having a healthy debate about many deep-rooted systems. I believe that any new knowledge that comes to light should be treated with the dispassionate eye of science and research and used for the betterment of humanity.
If you do read this book, you should be aware that this kind of interpretation of Judas and Jesus is NOT the perspective that 99% (or more) of Christians have. To really understand what Christians believe, you have to read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and even the book of the Acts of the Apostles, from the New Testament. The Biblegateway website gives easy access to these books (and commentary if you want) in multiple languages and translations. If a book delves into Gnostic or mystic sources for a reinterpretation, then it is entering the sphere of the historical development of Christianity, as different teachers (gurus, really) promulgated different teachings about Jesus, which resulted in many theological conflicts. The four gospels in the New Testament were the ones accepted as most authentic and authoritative by church councils because they can be traced back to actual disciples of Jesus or their close associates, because they were written within 70 years of Jesus' life, and because they were accepted by proto-orthodox Christians (people close to the time, immersed in the events and debates of the day) as authoritative within the first century of Christianity. Whew--this answer is getting longer than I intended! I just wanted to point out that to really understand what Christians today believe or why this is a controversial debate, you should start with the New Testament gospels before reading this book.

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Post by srividyag1 » 19 Jun 2019, 00:45

ahegdahl wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 17:23
srividyag1 wrote:
01 May 2019, 21:14
I was born into a religion with a multitude of gods. I’ve always been curious about Christianity and its history; the role it played in shaping the world’s history. I gather that what the author deals with in this book is a very controversial topic. When I read the sample, it consisted of mostly reviews from other publications. Yet, the introduction itself reads like a research paper. I am curious about how mysticism and Christian beliefs are linked. I am interested in reading this book because I like having a healthy debate about many deep-rooted systems. I believe that any new knowledge that comes to light should be treated with the dispassionate eye of science and research and used for the betterment of humanity.
If you do read this book, you should be aware that this kind of interpretation of Judas and Jesus is NOT the perspective that 99% (or more) of Christians have. To really understand what Christians believe, you have to read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and even the book of the Acts of the Apostles, from the New Testament. The Biblegateway website gives easy access to these books (and commentary if you want) in multiple languages and translations. If a book delves into Gnostic or mystic sources for a reinterpretation, then it is entering the sphere of the historical development of Christianity, as different teachers (gurus, really) promulgated different teachings about Jesus, which resulted in many theological conflicts. The four gospels in the New Testament were the ones accepted as most authentic and authoritative by church councils because they can be traced back to actual disciples of Jesus or their close associates, because they were written within 70 years of Jesus' life, and because they were accepted by proto-orthodox Christians (people close to the time, immersed in the events and debates of the day) as authoritative within the first century of Christianity. Whew--this answer is getting longer than I intended! I just wanted to point out that to really understand what Christians today believe or why this is a controversial debate, you should start with the New Testament gospels before reading this book.
Thanks for the reply and the explanation. I have read the Bible (both Old and New Testament) since I was schooled in a convent. But I did not know the facts you mentioned. My curiosity lies in the evolution of Christianity as a religion. Every religion, Hinduism (which I belong to), Buddhism, Sikhism - all religions were not started in their current form. And not all religions have the same belief system as Christianity (For example, Hinduism does not have the dichotomy of good and evil. It says everyone has both elements and that people are quite complex.) That being said, the history of every religion fascinates me - their beliefs and how those beliefs were shaped by centuries of strife and debate. I do not mean the history mentioned in the holy books of each religion, I mean what history and anthropological texts say. What intrigues me about this book is how mysticism which seems so unrelated to Christianity, is mentioned by the author as being related. I know that it is a controversial topic, and I know people tend to stay away from it. But, if the debate is healthy enough, I would like to witness it. I am not knowledgable enough in Christian history to participate in that debate since I do not know the origins of those beliefs. Whew!! My comment to your answer is also becoming long!! :D Thanks again for the clarification!!
- Srividya Giri
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Smile more, it's infectious.
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