Overall rating and opinion of "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler

Use this forum to discuss the May 2019 Book of the month, "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler
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TalonFox
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Re: Overall rating and opinion of "Misreading Judas" by Robert Wahler

Post by TalonFox » 26 May 2019, 22:17

Vscholz wrote:
01 May 2019, 20:15
I started this book a while ago. I love the idea behind it, but I wasn't able to fully understand what was being said. That isn't to speak poorly of the author--he certainly did his research, but I think the target audience is very specific. A basic understanding of Gnostic beliefs is definitely a must.
Oh! That's good to know. I'm definitely someone interested in religious history but I'm not particularly well versed in it either. I was having the hope that this book gave a better understanding, than just jumping into the topic with no prequel. Thank you for the comment! I think I will still attempt to read it.

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Post by Sahansdal » 27 May 2019, 01:14

TalonFox wrote:
26 May 2019, 22:17
Vscholz wrote:
01 May 2019, 20:15
I started this book a while ago. I love the idea behind it, but I wasn't able to fully understand what was being said. That isn't to speak poorly of the author--he certainly did his research, but I think the target audience is very specific. A basic understanding of Gnostic beliefs is definitely a must.
Oh! That's good to know. I'm definitely someone interested in religious history but I'm not particularly well versed in it either. I was having the hope that this book gave a better understanding, than just jumping into the topic with no prequel. Thank you for the comment! I think I will still attempt to read it.
Talon,
I have what you want. The Bible Says Saviors -- Obadiah 1:21 ... on Amazon

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Post by The_book_of_t » 27 May 2019, 12:49

I haven’t read this book and I’m not sure I intend to. From a young age I've actively avoided religion for personal reasons and I don’t tend to read books based on religious beliefs or ideology. Saying that, I’m not opposed to a book that allows for someone like me to understand the grounds of another’s religion as I like to change my personal views and opinions occasionally. So, I guess my question is, how is religion discussed In this book? Is it a little dose of ideology? Or even a full blown study?

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Post by Sahansdal » 27 May 2019, 14:40

The_book_of_t wrote:
27 May 2019, 12:49
I haven’t read this book and I’m not sure I intend to. From a young age I've actively avoided religion for personal reasons and I don’t tend to read books based on religious beliefs or ideology. Saying that, I’m not opposed to a book that allows for someone like me to understand the grounds of another’s religion as I like to change my personal views and opinions occasionally. So, I guess my question is, how is religion discussed In this book? Is it a little dose of ideology? Or even a full blown study?
Religion is incidental, really. It is about NEW information correctly interpreted. It is a bombshell, for sure.

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Post by dragonet07 » 27 May 2019, 18:16

As a former student of English literature (I have a Bachelor's in English with emphases in Literature, Criticism, and Theory and Creative Writing), I was quite fascinated by Robert Wahler's take the story of Judas. For someone who claims to only be a "retired farmer from Hawaii" (at least in the conclusion), he conducted his close reading of the scripture in a very comprehensive manner. Mind you, I did not agree with all of his conclusions--as I am agnostic, these disagreements are based only on what I perceive to be flaws in his argument rather than my personal religious beliefs--but I think that he lays out a well thought out analysis from a literary study perspective. I do, however, feel that he drifts into the trap of authorial intent in his conclusion; to me, he seemed to be making assumptions as to what the authors of the New Testament were trying to do, i.e. purposefully overwrite Gnostic teachings to meet selfish ends, and that is something which I generally like to avoid in these sorts of studies.

I would probably give the book 3 out of 4 stars, taking away one star mostly because of the use of authorial intent and what I felt to be a bit of a condescending tone towards biblical scholars. I have a person or two in particular I would recommend it to, but I'd be rather hesitant to recommend it to anyone else because I know how vile people can get about religion, not to mention how passionate some people get when discussing their interpretations of certain books, even if they are not religious texts. It's a rather toxic combination that one must handle with care.
The more that you read,
The more things you will know.
The more that you learn,
The more places you'll go.
~Dr. Seuss

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Post by Sahansdal » 27 May 2019, 19:11

dragonet07 wrote:
27 May 2019, 18:16
As a former student of English literature (I have a Bachelor's in English with emphases in Literature, Criticism, and Theory and Creative Writing), I was quite fascinated by Robert Wahler's take the story of Judas. For someone who claims to only be a "retired farmer from Hawaii" (at least in the conclusion), he conducted his close reading of the scripture in a very comprehensive manner. Mind you, I did not agree with all of his conclusions--as I am agnostic, these disagreements are based only on what I perceive to be flaws in his argument rather than my personal religious beliefs--but I think that he lays out a well thought out analysis from a literary study perspective. I do, however, feel that he drifts into the trap of authorial intent in his conclusion; to me, he seemed to be making assumptions as to what the authors of the New Testament were trying to do, i.e. purposefully overwrite Gnostic teachings to meet selfish ends, and that is something which I generally like to avoid in these sorts of studies.

I would probably give the book 3 out of 4 stars, taking away one star mostly because of the use of authorial intent and what I felt to be a bit of a condescending tone towards biblical scholars. I have a person or two in particular I would recommend it to, but I'd be rather hesitant to recommend it to anyone else because I know how vile people can get about religion, not to mention how passionate some people get when discussing their interpretations of certain books, even if they are not religious texts. It's a rather toxic combination that one must handle with care.
Dear dragonet07: Thank you for the kind words. Would you be willing to tell that to April DeConick? Ha. These scholars need a wake-up call. The non-religious have a better chance of understanding this. It really has more to do with simple comparative analysis than anything religious. Put a review on Amazon? :)

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Post by esp1975 » 28 May 2019, 10:06

The_book_of_t wrote:
27 May 2019, 12:49
I haven’t read this book and I’m not sure I intend to. From a young age I've actively avoided religion for personal reasons and I don’t tend to read books based on religious beliefs or ideology. Saying that, I’m not opposed to a book that allows for someone like me to understand the grounds of another’s religion as I like to change my personal views and opinions occasionally. So, I guess my question is, how is religion discussed In this book? Is it a little dose of ideology? Or even a full blown study?
I would tell you that "religion" is not discussed in this book. A religion is. Christianity. And if you see other threads on this book, there is the theory that the arguments made in the book could mark the end of Christianity. (Spoiler: That's not going to happen.) However, this book does argue, based on a close reading (and slightly different translation) of the newly found Gospel of Judas, for a completely new interpretation of the Christ/Judas betrayal story line, in that the argument is, Judas did not betray Christ, and Christ was not sacrificed (hence the argument for the end of Christianity). Instead, Judas was the sacrifice, but not his life, but his sinning life. Kind of like being reawakened as a Buddha.

I would actually argue that the book would benefit substantially from a more robust discussion of religion in general, specifically morehistory of the Christian Church, and a more thorough explanation of Gnostic/Eastern Mysticism beliefs.

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Post by Sumaira Zaheer » 28 May 2019, 14:48

I just downloaded this book and is on my must read list. I'm not a Christian but i'm always interested in reading about other religions and stories and legend connected t them. based on all the good reviews. I'm really looking forward to reading it.

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Post by Sahansdal » 28 May 2019, 15:36

esp1975 wrote:
28 May 2019, 10:06
The_book_of_t wrote:
27 May 2019, 12:49
I haven’t read this book and I’m not sure I intend to. From a young age I've actively avoided religion for personal reasons and I don’t tend to read books based on religious beliefs or ideology. Saying that, I’m not opposed to a book that allows for someone like me to understand the grounds of another’s religion as I like to change my personal views and opinions occasionally. So, I guess my question is, how is religion discussed In this book? Is it a little dose of ideology? Or even a full blown study?
I would tell you that "religion" is not discussed in this book. A religion is. Christianity. And if you see other threads on this book, there is the theory that the arguments made in the book could mark the end of Christianity. (Spoiler: That's not going to happen.) However, this book does argue, based on a close reading (and slightly different translation) of the newly found Gospel of Judas, for a completely new interpretation of the Christ/Judas betrayal story line, in that the argument is, Judas did not betray Christ, and Christ was not sacrificed (hence the argument for the end of Christianity). Instead, Judas was the sacrifice, but not his life, but his sinning life. Kind of like being reawakened as a Buddha.

I would actually argue that the book would benefit substantially from a more robust discussion of religion in general, specifically morehistory of the Christian Church, and a more thorough explanation of Gnostic/Eastern Mysticism beliefs.
This was my second book. I focused solely on newly discovered texts at Nag Hammadi and Al Minya, Egypt, which reveal the original succession story of James, inverted by the Gospel authors to hide him. I would hope people reading it would similarly focus, and see that it is a short stretch to asserting that the end of a religion is upon us. My first book, The Bible says saviors- Obadiah 1:21 covers more background information.

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Post by beccabecky » 29 May 2019, 00:32

It's an intriguing premise! This book raises interesting questions to analyze the way one sees the bible and especially the apocryphal gospels.

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Post by godreaujea » 29 May 2019, 07:17

I think, if nothing else, this book sparks great conversation regarding religious interpretation. The author shows another side to the story and makes readers think from another perspective.

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Post by Renee_Prior1995 » 29 May 2019, 14:53

I am reading it now. Over halfway through currently. This novel presents several religious ideas. I for one am sceptical of religion but read these books to learn and expand my horizon of religion. Wether you are religous or not this is a great read.

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Post by kdstrack » 29 May 2019, 15:50

The author did quite a bit of research on the subject of Judas. He cites numerous sources to support his position. One can certainly admire the zeal he manifests for his beliefs. It is counterproductive, though, that he demeans people who do not accept his point of view. Labeling Biblical beliefs as "nonsense" (loc. 1035) and "purely fictional" (loc. 1475) detract from his Gnostic ("Knowledge") position.

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Post by Nicole_Boyd » 29 May 2019, 16:19

I didn’t care for the book. It was hard to understand and it seemed that the author was trying to pull “facts” out of mid air. I believe Judas was the betrayer as the Bible says he is.

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Post by Sahansdal » 29 May 2019, 18:14

Nicole_Boyd wrote:
29 May 2019, 16:19
I didn’t care for the book. It was hard to understand and it seemed that the author was trying to pull “facts” out of mid air. I believe Judas was the betrayer as the Bible says he is.
Nicole,
So you think a sign, the kiss (the 'sign'), armed multitudes seizing, naked guy fleeing away, Hail BROTHER!/Hail, Master!, and JESUS reproving Peter, not the reverse, THREE times "in this night" are all a coincidence, and all IN ORDER?

Did you read the many parallels, ALWAYS inverted when the sense of the passage mattered most? There was a conscious effort to hide James. HE is the protagonist, Judas the villain, gnostic to orthodox inversion. Masters come ALL THE TIME. That is what they say, and give details for how to recognize one.

Dr. Robert Eisenman also found similar cover up surrounding James in the Dead Sea Scrolls, just so you know. He is highly under-appreciated. He was first to suggest Judas was James, inverted.

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