Murder or Assisted Suicide?

Use this forum to discuss the October Book of the Month "McDowell" by William H. Coles.
abbiejoice
Posts: 237
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 20:00
Currently Reading: Me Before You
Bookshelf Size: 38
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-abbiejoice.html
Latest Review: End of the Last Great Kingdom by Victor Rose

Re: Murder or Assisted Suicide?

Post by abbiejoice »

In the legal perspective, I believe it would be murder.
User avatar
Ekta Kumari
Book of the Month Participant
Posts: 1059
Joined: 02 Jul 2018, 02:54
Favorite Book: Rebecca
Currently Reading: Kafka On The Shore
Bookshelf Size: 84
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-ekta-kumari.html
Latest Review: Humanity Must Survive the 21st Century by Theodore Vornicu
Reading Device: B00I15SB16

Post by Ekta Kumari »

Jeremy was a victim of mental illness due to his mother herself being unsure of how to handle her children. She was never given the care and love of a parent and so she had no understanding of how to take care of her own family. It was a murder by Hiram. I don't think Jeremy was in his senses when he did that to himself. He had suicidal tendencies, which is common for a child in that situation. Lack of parental attention plays an imperative role in acting as a motivation.
"Words dazzle and deceive because they are mimed by the face. But black words on a white page are the soul laid bare."

-Guy de Maupassant
User avatar
JordanKSmith
Posts: 73
Joined: 21 Nov 2018, 01:24
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 11
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-jordanksmith.html
Latest Review: First Family by Alice Langholt
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

Post by JordanKSmith »

I'm going to go with being tried for murder. These were special circumstances, and Jeremy obviously wanted to die...at least he did before the suicide attempt.

The problem for me is that there wasn't a documented agreement to being euthanized. I wouldn't want to live in a world where someone could make those kinds of decisions autonomously and not see a courtroom.
If it looks bad, you've zoomed in too far.

Unconditional love is impossible until you can look at yourself without judgment.
(9 of 175 Books by 12/1/19)
User avatar
Mr Benji
Posts: 420
Joined: 16 Jan 2018, 03:34
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 73
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mr-benji.html
Latest Review: Dynomike: Pay It Forward by Frankie B. Rabbit

Post by Mr Benji »

The fact is clear, assisted murder is still murder. I don't think the law can be bent in this case.
Yours sincerely.
Books are lovely.
User avatar
Jillpillbooknerd
Posts: 162
Joined: 27 Feb 2018, 09:40
Currently Reading: Apollo's Raven
Bookshelf Size: 1908
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-jillpillbooknerd.html
Latest Review: One Way or Another by Mary J. Williams
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Post by Jillpillbooknerd »

I believe it was more towards murder. Like others have said, while he did try to commit suicide he did ultimately survive. He may have changed his mind if he ever woke up. You never know what happens to people when they go through something like that.
MalMartin
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Nov 2018, 06:54
Currently Reading: Murder in Memory
Bookshelf Size: 21
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-malmartin.html
Latest Review: McDowell by William H. Coles

Post by MalMartin »

This is a hard one to answer. I have had many family members die by assisted suicide with physicians so I know a lot about this process. Usually, before this happens the person wanting to die has to state to the physician that they wanted to die. If they don't, then the physician was not given permission and cannot kill them. He has to have the patient agree and sign papers. Then they usually have to sign DNR papers and many more things. I would consider this murder from a legal standpoint. However, I personally feel he didn't really murder him, or at least believe he murdered him.
User avatar
Shalu1707
Posts: 45
Joined: 29 Oct 2018, 05:23
Favorite Book: The Vampire Diaries
Currently Reading: If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your But's
Bookshelf Size: 74
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-shalu1707.html
Latest Review: McDowell by William H. Coles

Post by Shalu1707 »

I think murder. Jeremy was a troubled child but nothing which could not have been sorted with a good counselling. He was too young to know what actually is suicide to have attempted it. He could have been talked out of all the murders and suicide if only someone had taken proper actions on his previous misdeeds. no one actually said anything to him when he was violent that made him cross the line.
User avatar
LV2R
Posts: 1083
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 22:28
Favorite Book: Crown of Crimson (The Afterlight Chronicles Book 1)
Currently Reading: Roan
Bookshelf Size: 345
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-lv2r.html
Latest Review: Zona: The Forbidden Land by Fred G. Baker

Post by LV2R »

McDowell made the decision to end Jeremy's life without going through the proper and legal channels. He did not have the right to make that decision for Jeremy, so it was murder. It seems like as a doctor, he would have known how to get permission to end Jeremy's life.
User avatar
KRay93
Posts: 393
Joined: 01 Mar 2018, 09:49
Currently Reading: The Bourne Identity
Bookshelf Size: 98
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kray93.html
Latest Review: Non-Disclosure by George Dapra

Post by KRay93 »

While Jeremy wanted to take his own life, it was most likely a decision of the moment as he was overwhelmed by his own actions and the fear of facing the consequences. Hiram made a decision on his own regardless of Jeremy's wishes, believing that with him dead moving on would be easier for everyone. Although assisted suicide is something that I agree with, this seemed more like a murder than anything else.
User avatar
GPM
Posts: 312
Joined: 28 Feb 2017, 08:20
Favorite Book: The Diary Of An Immortal (1945-1959)
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 204
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-gpm.html
Latest Review: "Puffy and the Formidable Foe" by Marie Lepkowski and Ann Marie Hannon

Post by GPM »

I agree with everyone who says its murder. They explained well.
"A man learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people." - Will Rogers
Latest Review: "Puffy and the Formidable Foe" by Marie Lepkowski and Ann Marie Hannon
User avatar
Highly Favoured One
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Dec 2018, 02:02
Currently Reading: Health Tips, Myths, and Tricks
Bookshelf Size: 10

Post by Highly Favoured One »

From the flow of events, sounds like Hiram had the intention to kill Jeremy - whether or not Jeremy himself wanted to die. He should be tried for murder.
User avatar
Ehartl
Posts: 61
Joined: 24 Sep 2018, 16:57
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 33
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-ehartl.html
Latest Review: The Dark Web Murders by Brian O'Hare

Post by Ehartl »

It's murder. Hiram wasn't trying to be helpful to Jeremy; he was trying to ease his own pain and that of his family. Hiram knew what he was doing was wrong, as evidenced by the moving of the camera. He is a selfish character and that is made clear in this event.
User avatar
Blugrl175
Posts: 4
Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 11:34
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 11

Post by Blugrl175 »

In my opinion I believe it really was murder because even though Jeremy tried to commit suicide doesn't mean that after trying to kill himself that he still wanted to die. He could've wanted to continue living all over again Yes this is considered murder
User avatar
Louanne Piccolo
Posts: 135
Joined: 01 Jul 2018, 07:59
Currently Reading: A Judegement in Stone
Bookshelf Size: 88
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-louanne-piccolo.html
Latest Review: Sigfried’s Smelly Socks! by Len Foley
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

Post by Louanne Piccolo »

I'd say assisted suicide. I think it was quite clear that Jeremy wanted to die by shooting himself. If he was unhappy before that, I'm sure he would have been even more inclined to die seeing the state he was in afterwards.
It's likely I will die next to a pile of things I was meaning to read - Lemony Snicket
User avatar
Jessacardinal
Posts: 339
Joined: 21 Dec 2018, 17:49
Currently Reading: The Lost Identity Casualties
Bookshelf Size: 83
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-jessacardinal.html
Latest Review: The Girl Who Knew Da Vinci by Belle Ami

Post by Jessacardinal »

I am fairly sure the state Jeremy's death occurred in did not legally recognize assisted suicide roles in this book, therefore, Hiram would have to be tried for murder. Furthermore, even if the state did recognize assisted suicide, Hiram was not Jeremy's doctor, and never would have been given his immediate familial relationship to Jeremy. I honestly believe either way, Hiram would have to be tried for murder in this particular instance.
"Let's be reasonable and add an eighth day to the week that is devoted exclusively to reading." - Lena Dunham
Post Reply

Return to “Discuss "McDowell" by William H. Coles”