The Relativism of Historical Truth

Use this forum to discuss the June 2018 Book of the Month"The Girl Who Knew da Vinci" by Belle Ami
Post Reply
User avatar
cristinaro
Posts: 789
Joined: 07 Jan 2018, 03:51
Favorite Book: The Magic Mountain
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 116
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cristinaro.html
Latest Review: Toni the Superhero by R.D. Base
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU

The Relativism of Historical Truth

Post by cristinaro » 01 Jun 2018, 16:34

Visiting the Uffizi Gallery, Angela tackles the issue of whether the missing painting belongs to Leonardo da Vinci or not. As she learns the real story of the painting, she ponders on the relativism of historical truth: “It makes you wonder how many other things we consider true about the past are shadowed in misconceptions and cover-ups.”

What are your views on the matter? Would you be tempted to google some historical names and places in the novel to distinguish between fact and fiction?
"The madness of writing is the antidote to true madness." (Hanif Kureishi)

User avatar
Miriam Molina
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 3546
Joined: 02 May 2017, 20:17
2018 Reading Goal: 48
2017 Reading Goal: 36
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 100
2017 Reading Goal Completion: 125
Currently Reading: A Stained White Radiance
Bookshelf Size: 522
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-miriam-molina.html
Latest Review: Wordstruck! by Susanna Janssen
Reading Device: B00KC6I06S

Post by Miriam Molina » 04 Jun 2018, 20:44

I actually plan to Google the historical details. But I know that recorded history may not be accurate. The powers-that-be can and do dictate history.

User avatar
Kendra M Parker
Posts: 392
Joined: 07 Apr 2018, 07:49
2018 Reading Goal: 50
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 66
Currently Reading: Teaching from Rest
Bookshelf Size: 390
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kendra-m-parker.html
Latest Review: Prayer is Good: A Path from Grief to Peace by Brette Petway
Reading Device: B00GDQDRPK
Location: Virginia

Post by Kendra M Parker » 05 Jun 2018, 07:52

Your comment reminds me of the book that was popular a little while ago called Lies My Teacher Told Me. History is written by the “winners” or those in charge. When you go back to look at original sources from the “losing” side, it is interesting to see how often things look very different from that other side. Both sides use propaganda throughout history and part of a historian's job is to sort out the propaganda from the truth.

User avatar
alisonedgee
Posts: 170
Joined: 19 Mar 2018, 20:30
2018 Reading Goal: 50
2017 Reading Goal: 0
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 22
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 15
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-alisonedgee.html
Latest Review: Lemoncella Cocktail by Rene Natan
Location: London

Post by alisonedgee » 05 Jun 2018, 21:21

I would. Personally, whatever the content is, be it film/books/tv/ w/e, if you're going to use real things be accurate. It really bothers be knowing that there are pointless inaccuracies in things. If you're going to have characters visit a place, a real, well know landmark, fgs do the research to make it realistic. If you're not willing to put in the effort then just say 'a street' or 'a gallery' you know.

its a little pet peeve i guess.

ChrisChatfield
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 May 2018, 19:20
Currently Reading: The Girl Who Knew da Vinci
Bookshelf Size: 13
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-chrischatfield.html
Latest Review: The MECE Muse by Christie Lindor

Post by ChrisChatfield » 05 Jun 2018, 22:13

Most facts, historical facts are no exception, are influenced by misconceptions and cover ups. At times, these can be intentional, but may also be unintentional. People can only report on what happens to the best of their knowledge. Of course, there have been many times in human history where the facts have been skewed to match or serve the agenda of a particular group of people who want to influence the masses. However, I'd like to make a distinction between 'fact' and 'truth.' A fact can be objectively measured, such as the example of who wrote the painting. A truth is often unable to be objectively measured.

User avatar
N_R
Posts: 328
Joined: 19 Sep 2017, 01:32
2018 Reading Goal: 30
2017 Reading Goal: 25
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 73
2017 Reading Goal Completion: 8
Favorite Author: James Mace
Currently Reading: Pancake Money
Bookshelf Size: 165
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-n-r.html
Latest Review: Book Blueprint by Jacqui Pretty
fav_author_id: 21042
Location: NZ

Post by N_R » 06 Jun 2018, 02:17

I find that, as a history buff, I always want to google elements of a novel to see how much truth there are in the story. It also helps with my own knowledge.

User avatar
briellejee
Posts: 303
Joined: 25 Aug 2017, 23:40
2018 Reading Goal: 120
2017 Reading Goal: 15
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 78
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 162
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-briellejee.html
Latest Review: The Prize by Geoffrey M Cooper
Location: PH

Post by briellejee » 06 Jun 2018, 03:13

I think I would. I am really fond of these controversies lying around. It's like an adventure with Google rather than a map though. But still, it really made me wonder what else is hidden behind the glamour and prestige of these well-known, historically relevant and life-changing artists and their works?

User avatar
JR Mercier
Posts: 515
Joined: 23 May 2018, 05:03
2018 Reading Goal: 0
Favorite Book: The Bear and the Nightingale
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 120
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-jr-mercier.html
Latest Review: Superhighway 2 by Alex Fayman
Location: South Africa

Post by JR Mercier » 06 Jun 2018, 09:54

Miriam Molina wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 20:44
I actually plan to Google the historical details. But I know that recorded history may not be accurate. The powers-that-be can and do dictate history.
Totally agree. History is written by the victors and more often then we know history is written to favour a certain figure/narrative.
Dream up something wild and improbable.
-Strange The Dreamer, Laini Taylor

User avatar
thaservices1
Posts: 302
Joined: 21 Apr 2018, 22:22
2018 Reading Goal: 50
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 50
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 31
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-thaservices1.html
Latest Review: The Reel Sisters by Michelle Cummings
Location: USA

Post by thaservices1 » 06 Jun 2018, 18:58

This historical aspect did set an interest in the Florence nobility. I will probably go googling to know more, how they became, what the other great houses were, did they crumble, fade away, or are they still around.
"It is not the critic that counts..."
- Roosevelt

User avatar
bookowlie
Special Discussion Leader
Posts: 7401
Joined: 25 Oct 2014, 09:52
2017 Reading Goal: 52
2017 Reading Goal Completion: 50
Favorite Book: The Lost Continent
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 310
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-bookowlie.html
Latest Review: Boomer rhymes cuckoo as a trump hairdo by Tom J Davis

Post by bookowlie » 06 Jun 2018, 19:54

While reading this book, I became interested in finding out more about the Medicis and if Leonardo da Vinci actually had a friendship with anyone from this family. Also, the plotline about Gerhard stealing the painting from an Italian gallery made me wonder how many priceless works of art had been stolen from museums during WWII.
"I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship" - Louisa May Alcott

Bettercallyourbookie
Posts: 52
Joined: 02 Mar 2018, 03:24
2018 Reading Goal: 12
2017 Reading Goal: 0
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 158
Currently Reading: Apollo's Raven
Bookshelf Size: 26
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-bettercallyourbookie.html
Latest Review: The Girl Who Knew Da Vinci by Belle Ami

Post by Bettercallyourbookie » 06 Jun 2018, 20:57

alisonedgee wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 21:21
I would. Personally, whatever the content is, be it film/books/tv/ w/e, if you're going to use real things be accurate. It really bothers be knowing that there are pointless inaccuracies in things. If you're going to have characters visit a place, a real, well know landmark, fgs do the research to make it realistic. If you're not willing to put in the effort then just say 'a street' or 'a gallery' you know.

its a little pet peeve i guess.
Is it really a pointless change, though? Sometimes the changes are made for theatrical or dramatic purposes. Whether or not you think that's valid is up to you, but I think making the story palatable for readers, sometimes at the expense of historical accuracy, is worth it.

Bettercallyourbookie
Posts: 52
Joined: 02 Mar 2018, 03:24
2018 Reading Goal: 12
2017 Reading Goal: 0
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 158
Currently Reading: Apollo's Raven
Bookshelf Size: 26
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-bettercallyourbookie.html
Latest Review: The Girl Who Knew Da Vinci by Belle Ami

Post by Bettercallyourbookie » 06 Jun 2018, 21:00

briellejee wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 03:13
I think I would. I am really fond of these controversies lying around. It's like an adventure with Google rather than a map though. But still, it really made me wonder what else is hidden behind the glamour and prestige of these well-known, historically relevant and life-changing artists and their works?
I so agree! I wonder what historical events were purposefully changed to save face for particularly powerful people. What events actually transpired? And what effect did that have on events after the fact? How much of what we know as "history" is actually true?

User avatar
briellejee
Posts: 303
Joined: 25 Aug 2017, 23:40
2018 Reading Goal: 120
2017 Reading Goal: 15
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 78
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 162
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-briellejee.html
Latest Review: The Prize by Geoffrey M Cooper
Location: PH

Post by briellejee » 07 Jun 2018, 04:13

Bettercallyourbookie wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 21:00
briellejee wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 03:13
I think I would. I am really fond of these controversies lying around. It's like an adventure with Google rather than a map though. But still, it really made me wonder what else is hidden behind the glamour and prestige of these well-known, historically relevant and life-changing artists and their works?
I so agree! I wonder what historical events were purposefully changed to save face for particularly powerful people. What events actually transpired? And what effect did that have on events after the fact? How much of what we know as "history" is actually true?
But how sad it would be if we uncover the secrets and realize that they are not as life-changing as they were? The truth really does come with a price. I dont know if you have watched Coco, but their legendary musician was fraud and it was heartbreaking to the ones that looked up to him.

User avatar
Sushan
Posts: 285
Joined: 04 May 2018, 19:13
2018 Reading Goal: 10
2017 Reading Goal: 0
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 90
Currently Reading: Dodging Satan
Bookshelf Size: 77
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-sushan.html
Latest Review: Heartaches 3 by H.M. Irwing
Location: Sri Lanka

Post by Sushan » 07 Jun 2018, 05:41

History is past stories that are told to us by someone. So, whether they have been changed at some point is something that we don't know for sure. That is why we see various sort of interpretations regarding historical events throughout literature
:techie-studyingbrown: $u$han €kanayak€ :techie-studyingbrown:

User avatar
alisonedgee
Posts: 170
Joined: 19 Mar 2018, 20:30
2018 Reading Goal: 50
2017 Reading Goal: 0
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 22
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 15
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-alisonedgee.html
Latest Review: Lemoncella Cocktail by Rene Natan
Location: London

Post by alisonedgee » 07 Jun 2018, 11:22

Bettercallyourbookie wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 20:57
alisonedgee wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 21:21
I would. Personally, whatever the content is, be it film/books/tv/ w/e, if you're going to use real things be accurate. It really bothers be knowing that there are pointless inaccuracies in things. If you're going to have characters visit a place, a real, well know landmark, fgs do the research to make it realistic. If you're not willing to put in the effort then just say 'a street' or 'a gallery' you know.

its a little pet peeve i guess.
Is it really a pointless change, though? Sometimes the changes are made for theatrical or dramatic purposes. Whether or not you think that's valid is up to you, but I think making the story palatable for readers, sometimes at the expense of historical accuracy, is worth it.
see, i get where you're coming from, but i just don't think it's worth annoying the pedantic among us. like i said, if a writer isnt going to be completely accurate with a location, then don't be specific, you know?
like don't set a scene in a famous gallery and tell the reader the name, when you could just say 'a gallery in x location'

Post Reply

Return to “Discuss "The Girl Who Knew da Vinci" by Belle Ami”