Was there any way Natalie could justify her feelings for a married man?
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Re: Was there any way Natalie could justify her feelings for a married man?
It is unsurprising that a child from an abusive household would latch onto a positive male role model and see any happy feelings as love, and it is equally easy for those early feels of admiration and acceptance to grow into true love. I don't think Natalie needs to "justify" feeling loved and accepted for the first time, or reciprocating those feelings. I do think it was wrong of her to engage in an affair with Mr. Glover but she was not the one responsible for that. I do think that she had some responsibility for her actions, certainly carrying on a 30 year affair means she was making her choices as an adult as well as when she was a child. But this affair started when she was 1) a minor, 2) an employee and 3) in an extremely unbalanced, vulnerable state. It is hard to see a true, healthy, life-long attachment coming out of that.
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I agree with pretty much all of that - I think the author made a mistake in putting all that in the Epilogue - I personally would have preferred a sequel in which Natalie comes to understand how she has been abused. Maybe the author thought that showing that Natalie really loved Mr Glover would somehow make what happened OK. My biggest complaint about the book is this lack of moral clarity - the actual events as depicted in the book - and even Natalie's feelings at the time - are all fine.EllieA wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 09:31 Any person can fall in love, but that doesn't make us magically not responsible for our actions. Although the burden lies really on her employer. Natalie didn't "steal" Mr. Glover- he was an adult that chose to have an affair with a child. Natalie was 16. Yes, that is still a child. An adult kissing, grooming, and otherwise sexually interacting with a child generally has a much nastier name than "love." Likewise, when an employer puts an employee in sexually compromising situations, or engages in an affair with their subordinate, we don't generally regard it as un-coerced, balanced "love."
It is unsurprising that a child from an abusive household would latch onto a positive male role model and see any happy feelings as love, and it is equally easy for those early feels of admiration and acceptance to grow into true love. I don't think Natalie needs to "justify" feeling loved and accepted for the first time, or reciprocating those feelings. I do think it was wrong of her to engage in an affair with Mr. Glover but she was not the one responsible for that. I do think that she had some responsibility for her actions, certainly carrying on a 30 year affair means she was making her choices as an adult as well as when she was a child. But this affair started when she was 1) a minor, 2) an employee and 3) in an extremely unbalanced, vulnerable state. It is hard to see a true, healthy, life-long attachment coming out of that.
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We can't blame her for her choice with respect to a man since she had no role model to look up to. In as much as I don't blame her i still don't think what she did was rightTbunde5 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 22:27 Natalie had no positive role models to teach her what an appropriate relationship should be. She also has no knowledge of what real love should look like. In light of that, I don’t think we can blame her for her choices in this regard. In as much as her conscience tells her what she is doing may be wrong, she has been brought up in a dysfunctional home. We can hardly blame her for wanting what she sees as a loving relationship, no matter the cost.
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The fact that Natalie grew up in a dysfunctional home has little to do with being involved with a married man. Many, many kids come from dysfunctional homes and do not engage in such relationships.Tbunde5 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 22:27 Natalie had no positive role models to teach her what an appropriate relationship should be. She also has no knowledge of what real love should look like. In light of that, I don’t think we can blame her for her choices in this regard. In as much as her conscience tells her what she is doing may be wrong, she has been brought up in a dysfunctional home. We can hardly blame her for wanting what she sees as a loving relationship, no matter the cost.
I think the abuse she experienced was far more significant. She wanted someone to love her. To her, anyone that didn't abuse her was someone she could love and get love in return. It didn't matter what else was going on in this man's life. Natalie found someone that loved her back and that's all that mattered to her.
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I need to say this before I say anything else: Natalie did not "steal" Mrs. Grocer's man. Mr. Grover knew exactly what he was doing. He made a conscious decision to get involved with Natalie. He wasn't taken against his will. He wasn't held at gunpoint and didn't have his life threatened. A man (or woman) cannot be "taken" from their marriage/relationship unless they are already unhappy and/or thinking of leaving.Rameen Shahid wrote: ↑04 Apr 2018, 11:23 We all know what Natalie did was wrong or in another explanation, unethical, but is it really?
Is there any chance you think Natalie had no bad intentions of stealing Mrs. Grover's man in the first place and that she just couldn't help her feelings in the name of love?
I think at some point, she can justify her feelings because after all, not everyone has a control over their desires, love being the most irresistible one.
With that being said, I do feel Natalie can justify her feelings. She simply wanted someone to love her. Anyone. She wasn't concerned about age or relationship status. She just wanted love. A person can't help who they fall in love with even if the situation isn't ideal.
Mr. Grover couldn't help his feelings for Natalie, but as an adult I feel he should have waited until she was truly mature enough in age and mentality to make such grown up decisions. He should have allowed Natalie time to heal from all that she'd been through and enjoy some experiences like college and just hanging out with friends. He also should have ended his marriage first. He should have been the adult and showed Natalie responsibility.
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I think the main point of her having feelings for a married man had to do with the growth of her character: her sexual awakening and evolution from an insecure girl to realizing her beauty. Natalie also had no healthy example of a normal relationship. Her mom and Alex were toxic and Natalie didn't even get to experience a relationship between her grandma and grandpa. Though her grandpa was around and they were close, her grandma was no longer alive for Natalie to experience them together.
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I think you're dead right about Mr Glover. Natalie doesn't have to justify her feelings, though she is old enough to have to justify her actions, and she did owe Mrs Glover some loyalty. Nevertheless, Bruce Glover must take the greater share of the blame.CheyenneR wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 18:36 I don't think she could control her feelings but I think since Mr. Glover was older and in an authoritative role over her he could have controlled his feelings much better than a teenager could. Plus he was the married one. Even though I say that Natalie also knew he was married and was even friendly with his wife so I think they both share some heavy responsibility. I think in Natalie's case she could justify her feelings.
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