Views on Immigration

Use this forum to discuss the March 2018 Book of the Month, "Final Notice" by Van Fleisher.
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britt13
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Re: Views on Immigration

Post by britt13 » 25 Mar 2018, 09:47

Tbunde5 wrote:
23 Mar 2018, 10:33
Almost 500 years ago, the Catholic government in England burned Protestants at the stake. Once the Protestants took over the government, they began beheading Catholics. Hundreds of years of civil war all over religion.

I am a Protestant Christian. Let's say you are a Muslim. While I don't agree with your religion, it is not the basis of my feelings toward you as a person. There are plenty of Catholics, Protestants, and atheists that have committed atrocities, even in the name of religion (read up on the Crusades if you don't believe me). There are terrorists who are not Muslim (see Austin bombings) and rapists who are not Mexican. The best known serial killers were all white.

I applaud Fleisher's creation of the Khan's, as well a Qasim and Rasha. Through these characters he showed that many immigrants are just like everyone else. I don't believe you can ban someone from coming to this country solely based on religion. This entire country was founded on the principal of Freedom of Religion. It's what brought the Puritan Pilgrims here. On a boat called the Mayflower. Right after their government started burning Puritans at the stake.
Very well said. I myself am also a Protestant Christian and sometimes I lately feel like that makes some people look at me as someone who is a judgemental asshole. The current administration has brought out the worst type of Christian, the hit you on the head with a bible type, and made that seem like the norm. I think that people are people. Yes culturally we are different, and we have different religions, lovers, ideals, but at the end of the day, we are all people.

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Post by R-g-R » 25 Mar 2018, 18:33

I enjoyed reading the multicultural characters’ perspectives and thoughts, and appreciated the way they were welcomed and included.

There are clearly significant numbers of dispossessed people, fleeing war and persecution, and that is their human right. Surely the US is a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention, the same as Australia? When our countries have been responsible for recent wars, then surely it is reasonable that we should assist those who can no longer live in destruction? Surely the comparative wealth of our nations means we have the responsibility and means to help those who are struggling and dying for lack of basic needs such as water, food and shelter?

I agree with comments that state we should assist our homeless and struggling people...definitely...but I also think we cannot ignore those who come to our shores seeking asylum and refuge.

How many deaths from gun violence occur every year in the US?
How many annual deaths from immigrants?
Guns are clearly the much bigger problem.

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Post by R-g-R » 25 Mar 2018, 18:44

Tbunde5 wrote:
23 Mar 2018, 10:33
Almost 500 years ago, the Catholic government in England burned Protestants at the stake. Once the Protestants took over the government, they began beheading Catholics. Hundreds of years of civil war all over religion.

I am a Protestant Christian. Let's say you are a Muslim. While I don't agree with your religion, it is not the basis of my feelings toward you as a person. There are plenty of Catholics, Protestants, and atheists that have committed atrocities, even in the name of religion (read up on the Crusades if you don't believe me). There are terrorists who are not Muslim (see Austin bombings) and rapists who are not Mexican. The best known serial killers were all white.

I applaud Fleisher's creation of the Khan's, as well a Qasim and Rasha. Through these characters he showed that many immigrants are just like everyone else. I don't believe you can ban someone from coming to this country solely based on religion. This entire country was founded on the principal of Freedom of Religion. It's what brought the Puritan Pilgrims here. On a boat called the Mayflower. Right after their government started burning Puritans at the stake.
I also applaud the author in exploring so many significant and current issues and agree with you that religion is not an appropriate basis for refusal of entry to western countries. I teach many multicultural students at a university in Sydney, Australia, and many concur that true followers of Islam understand their religion is a call to peace, living in peace, and not engaging in hate or violence of any sort. The radicalised expressions we have seen via the media are not at all the genuine heart of the religion. This should also be the same for Christianity however, as mentioned in your comment, there are also Christians who ignore the core belief of ‘love your neighbour as yourself’.

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Post by VictoriaMcMillen » 25 Mar 2018, 20:59

khusnick wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 17:06
Immigration is honestly the least of our problems. It's pushed to seem super important, but most people have not and never will be harmed or affected by an immigrant in a negative way.

The homeless issue expressed above is entirely separate. We have a ridiculous amount of empty houses and apartments across the country. They're sitting, falling apart, with no one living inside them. There will probably never be anyone living inside them again. The affordability of housing and assistance programs in getting homeless people back into actual homes are something we need to work on, yes, but that has no relation to immigration. There's no reason we can't do both.
I was very interested in your post. I agree, having our own issues should not cause us not to help others. It seems that we cause many of and ignore many of our own problems in America. Then when another problem arises the lame excuse continues... It is deflection, a negative coping mechanism used by people who like to procrastinate and not take responsibility for their actions or inactions. Politics are really getting bogus when we have such a substantial homeless population and plenty of empty homes! The world definitely needs a good change. many for that matter.
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Post by lesler » 25 Mar 2018, 22:49

Definitely a loaded question, but I feel Muslims should be given the same opportunities that our ancestors did to immigrate to this country. This is a controversial topic, but what's wrong with being fair?

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Post by britt13 » 27 Mar 2018, 16:00

R-g-R wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 18:33
I enjoyed reading the multicultural characters’ perspectives and thoughts, and appreciated the way they were welcomed and included.

There are clearly significant numbers of dispossessed people, fleeing war and persecution, and that is their human right. Surely the US is a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention, the same as Australia? When our countries have been responsible for recent wars, then surely it is reasonable that we should assist those who can no longer live in destruction? Surely the comparative wealth of our nations means we have the responsibility and means to help those who are struggling and dying for lack of basic needs such as water, food and shelter?

I agree with comments that state we should assist our homeless and struggling people...definitely...but I also think we cannot ignore those who come to our shores seeking asylum and refuge.

How many deaths from gun violence occur every year in the US?
How many annual deaths from immigrants?
Guns are clearly the much bigger problem.
I totally agree. I think our current administration is focused on immigration because it is something they can use to distract from the real problems that they do not want to deal with, like guns. I think also that the homeless is a separate issue from immigration but even if it was not I agree with you that it would still be important to help those needing to come in.

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Post by britt13 » 27 Mar 2018, 16:03

lesler wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 22:49
Definitely a loaded question, but I feel Muslims should be given the same opportunities that our ancestors did to immigrate to this country. This is a controversial topic, but what's wrong with being fair?
Muslims are not the only immigrants having issues getting into this country but I understand what you mean. I have no idea why people would think anyone who is a law-abiding person has any less of a right to be here than anyone else.

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Post by cozark38 » 01 Apr 2018, 11:38

My mother used to tell me to "clean your own backyard before you clean anyone else's." Well, she is right. We do need to address the issues of the people that live in this country first, which includes immigrants, homeless, orphans, angry kids, safety in schools. The list is too big to put here. I am only a second generation American on my mother's side. She also taught us to love others as we love ourselves. When I have it, I will give money to a homeless person, but not just that, I ask them their name, tell them mine, and smile at them. That is the first step.

We are lucky to live here. It is not a perfect country, but most of us are here because of these words. Keep talking, all of you. Some folks have soft voices, some like me, a bit louder, but all of us together can get really loud and that is what it is going to take. I think we all want the same thing, change. Change for the better. I appreciate with volatile subjects the respect shown here with the many diverse opinions. It's refreshing. No matter our differences, if we quit spewing hate and just communicate with each other we will get better.

We do need to make some changes, but I would never want to just block all immigration either. I always try to think of the statue of liberty.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation, Inc.

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Post by KRay93 » 01 Apr 2018, 12:07

The issue of immigration has two facets. First, you have the terrorism/narcotics issue. The vast majority of Muslims don't have such extreme views on the matter, but it is also true that the attacks are carried out on certain occasions by members of families long established in the US. It is a traditional modus operandi. In the case of the other large influx of immigrants from Latin America, it's also true that some citizens of countries such as Mexico and Colombia carry with them the problem of drugs, although there always is a certain degree of complicity of US authorities.

The other big problem is the employment issue. I don't know the rate of unemployment in the US, but a nation has to give priority to its own citizens over those of other countries. I'm from Argentina, and right now we have a high level of unemployment accompanied by a significant migratory flow from Venezuela. Local companies usually take foreigners because they accept jobs for a lower salary, harming the citizens of my country.

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Post by Zilelabelle » 01 Apr 2018, 15:19

sepicatt wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 06:57
Ok, loaded topic here. But I will say my view is to currently not allow immigration right now. We have enough children and people who are homeless and need assistance that already live here (regardless of whether legal or illegal- they are here). Take care of them first. For example, there were currently 25,000 homeless children in NYC right before winter approached. Put your resources into taking care of them. Once you solve that problem then re-evaluate immigration. It's like going to help and spend your money on the neighborhood when your own house and family are falling apart but you aren't taking care of it.
While I agree our people need help too, I think it is the corrupt politicians pitting us against homeless, terrified refugees that have all the money necessary to take care of both problems. Let's empty their pockets before we close our borders. Only then would I even consider telling starving children they can't find safety in our country.

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Post by EMoffat » 02 Apr 2018, 01:01

Immigration is a tough topic and I think a lot of people see it the wrong way. Imagine you were born into a country at war and violence and you didn't feel safe in your own home. If this was you and you were given an opportunity to move somewhere else and start a new life would you not want that opportunity? Regardless of race or religion people should be allowed the freedom to have a safe life and I have respect for countries that see immigrants as possibilities for their land rather than hindrances

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Post by Eileen R » 03 Apr 2018, 16:22

Immigration is a very sensitive subject right now. However, I think that everyone deserves a chance regardless of where they're from. Only allowing people from some countries is completely biased.

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Post by Asen Stoyanchev » 04 Apr 2018, 06:23

I think that a country should be very careful when accepting immigrants because as we all know, bad things happen all the time.
In my country we have huge problems related to the incoming wave of immigrants who commit outrages.
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Post by atonykamau » 04 Apr 2018, 07:31

I think that immigration can be great as long as it is regulated. If too many immigrants enter one country it could be bad for that country.

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Post by Mailis » 05 Apr 2018, 13:28

I think it shouldn't be 100% no immigrants or 100% let us take in all who want to come. I think the best approach is individual one and I want those who are in charge to step up their game and see things through and take responsibility. I want those who are given a new home in a new country to understand the local culture and customs and respect them and not stay outside of already existing community doing nothing, playing the victim and demanding instant benefits. But I want them to have also chance to learn the local language and to feel welcome if they are working hard, are respectful, friendly and honest.

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