How much responsibility falls on the NRA?

Use this forum to discuss the March 2018 Book of the Month, "Final Notice" by Van Fleisher.
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britt13
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Re: How much responsibility falls on the NRA?

Post by britt13 » 28 Mar 2018, 19:48

jessinikkip wrote: ↑
04 Mar 2018, 02:58
I think that VitalTech and the NRA share the responsibility here. VitalTech for giving the Final Notice even after they knew what was going on and the NRA for not reconsidering their huge gun push. They continue to offer discounts and lower rates and everything to get people to buy and buy and buy guns, but no option for how to avoid or prevent the violence these guns are causing. It's less like the FDA and more if I started selling live bombs to people, am I responsible if they explode? YES
So how much responsibility does that leave for the actual shooter? I go back and forth on who all is to blame (I talked about blame in one of my responses to someone else who said everyone involved was to blame which I think is a very diluted way of thinking though I respect their opinion) but I usually decide it is mostly on the shooter. Thoughts?

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Post by britt13 » 28 Mar 2018, 19:50

Anirudh Badri wrote: ↑
04 Mar 2018, 07:45
The answer would depend on whether we are talking about moral responsibility or legal culpability. If it is the latter, then that would not be workable. On the other hand, moral responsibility can only be assumed and not pushed onto anyone.
That is a very good point. It does seem like most of us are focused on it from a moral standpoint. I am not sure if that is because there is a general understanding that legally they would not be responsible, or just a focus in morality because in the book so many people's morals go to the wayside.
I feel like you are dealing with the idea of blame like anger. Being angry with someone or blaming them really only affects you, not them.

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Post by britt13 » 28 Mar 2018, 19:53

melissy370 wrote: ↑
04 Mar 2018, 19:03
The NRA might have some culpability in the problems. However, they were quite demonized in the book to extreme. I don't think they have that much political clout as was portrayed.
What scares me is that is actually one place in the book I do not think was over the top. I am not saying that I think the NRA is to blame, but I do think they have as much "political clout" as the book talks about, if not more. They are not the only group lining the pockets of politicians to the detriment of this country, just one that this book focuses on obviously.

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Post by lesler » 30 Mar 2018, 10:26

No, because that's not how the government regulates things. If this was the case, alcohol companies would be responsible for all liver failures in the country, big tobacco for all cancers, and so forth. I do not support the NRA, but they are in the business of selling guns, not for the gun owners' actions.

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Post by KRay93 » 30 Mar 2018, 10:41

The NRA must surely have its influence in the upper echelons of society, politics, etc. However, we must not forget what their business is: selling weapons. It is true that the publicity they make in the book could be considered as irresponsible, but both in the book and in the real life I have no choice but to apply the maximum law: no demand, no supply.

As with alcohol, tobacco, drugs and many others, prohibition is not the solution either. Remember what happened with alcohol in the US during the 20's. It only ends up fomenting illegality. The answer has always been the same: to raise awareness, to promote proper education...

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Post by BriennaiJ » 30 Mar 2018, 11:51

I think that the NRA holds some responsibility. Sure, tobacco companies may not be to blame for all cancers. However, when it was found that they were hiding the results of studies that showed that smoking leads to cancers from consumers, they did have to pay some money. Thus, the commercials that float around on the TV telling people to collect their money from lawsuits. The NRA blocks research on gun violence by paying politicians and lobbying. Therefore, if the research is allowed to be conducted, the same thing may occur. They are not responsible for all gun owners' actions, but they may be responsible for giving the guns to people who should not have been able to purchase them, or for some of the extremely deadly actions of certain owners of rifles.

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Post by n-dai che » 31 Mar 2018, 15:23

Sarah_Khan wrote: ↑
26 Mar 2018, 11:57
I think the NRA should take some responsibility for what happens in the shootings in the book. I find it funny that we are getting restrictions on what we can and can't eat, but no one wants to admit that we need more gun control.
you have the point, gun gives us protection, though.

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Post by becsimpson » 31 Mar 2018, 15:42

As a Brit, the NRA and the power it has scares the crap out of me. We have nothing like that here, and guns aren't a big issue at all. Can't remember the last time we had any kind of mass shooting. Here it's more knife crime. Guns are hard to get hold of, but not impossible. It's just all on the black market.

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Post by n-dai che » 01 Apr 2018, 02:27

becsimpson wrote: ↑
31 Mar 2018, 15:42
As a Brit, the NRA and the power it has scares the crap out of me. We have nothing like that here, and guns aren't a big issue at all. Can't remember the last time we had any kind of mass shooting. Here it's more knife crime. Guns are hard to get hold of, but not impossible. It's just all on the black market.
Here in our place mass shooting is rampant due to the issue of drugs. It is so sad when we heard some people who are not the target are being killed.

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Post by n-dai che » 01 Apr 2018, 02:30

BriennaiJ wrote: ↑
30 Mar 2018, 11:51
I think that the NRA holds some responsibility. Sure, tobacco companies may not be to blame for all cancers. However, when it was found that they were hiding the results of studies that showed that smoking leads to cancers from consumers, they did have to pay some money. Thus, the commercials that float around on the TV telling people to collect their money from lawsuits. The NRA blocks research on gun violence by paying politicians and lobbying. Therefore, if the research is allowed to be conducted, the same thing may occur. They are not responsible for all gun owners' actions, but they may be responsible for giving the guns to people who should not have been able to purchase them, or for some of the extremely deadly actions of certain owners of rifles.
I agree with you. If only guns and all kinds of deadly weapons were in the right facility, I guess less crime will happen.

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Post by n-dai che » 01 Apr 2018, 02:32

KRay93 wrote: ↑
30 Mar 2018, 10:41
The NRA must surely have its influence in the upper echelons of society, politics, etc. However, we must not forget what their business is: selling weapons. It is true that the publicity they make in the book could be considered as irresponsible, but both in the book and in the real life I have no choice but to apply the maximum law: no demand, no supply.

As with alcohol, tobacco, drugs and many others, prohibition is not the solution either. Remember what happened with alcohol in the US during the 20's. It only ends up fomenting illegality. The answer has always been the same: to raise awareness, to promote proper education...
You have the point! For the sake of business, the NRA sold it even if they already know the disadvantages when giving it to the wrong person. To know the right person is very hard to found out.

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Post by n-dai che » 01 Apr 2018, 02:34

lesler wrote: ↑
30 Mar 2018, 10:26
No, because that's not how the government regulates things. If this was the case, alcohol companies would be responsible for all liver failures in the country, big tobacco for all cancers, and so forth. I do not support the NRA, but they are in the business of selling guns, not for the gun owners' actions.
You have the point either. I guess, the gun holder's motive in owning a gun will matter.

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Post by Spirit Wandering » 01 Apr 2018, 09:56

n-dai che wrote: ↑
01 Apr 2018, 02:27
becsimpson wrote: ↑
31 Mar 2018, 15:42
As a Brit, the NRA and the power it has scares the crap out of me. We have nothing like that here, and guns aren't a big issue at all. Can't remember the last time we had any kind of mass shooting. Here it's more knife crime. Guns are hard to get hold of, but not impossible. It's just all on the black market.
Here in our place mass shooting is rampant due to the issue of drugs. It is so sad when we heard some people who are not the target are being killed.
There are certainly gun related crimes in America that involve drugs. However, generally, the mass shootings in places like Parkland and Las Vegas don't involve drug crimes. I find it interesting the difference in experience regarding mass shootings in US vs. Great Britain. I would be curious to understand if that difference is just related to gun control laws or also a different cultural perspective on use of guns.
Interested in books that help one's spirit move beyond the ordinary.

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Post by n-dai che » 01 Apr 2018, 12:42

Spirit Wandering wrote: ↑
01 Apr 2018, 09:56
n-dai che wrote: ↑
01 Apr 2018, 02:27
becsimpson wrote: ↑
31 Mar 2018, 15:42
As a Brit, the NRA and the power it has scares the crap out of me. We have nothing like that here, and guns aren't a big issue at all. Can't remember the last time we had any kind of mass shooting. Here it's more knife crime. Guns are hard to get hold of, but not impossible. It's just all on the black market.
Here in our place mass shooting is rampant due to the issue of drugs. It is so sad when we heard some people who are not the target are being killed.
There are certainly gun related crimes in America that involve drugs. However, generally, the mass shootings in places like Parkland and Las Vegas don't involve drug crimes. I find it interesting the difference in experience regarding mass shootings in US vs. Great Britain. I would be curious to understand if that difference is just related to gun control laws or also a different cultural perspective on use of guns.
I guess, culture affects this law. In our country, all my countrymen are being told, "shoot if it is necessary, do not be afraid."

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Post by becsimpson » 03 Apr 2018, 09:53

n-dai che wrote: ↑
01 Apr 2018, 12:42
Spirit Wandering wrote: ↑
01 Apr 2018, 09:56
n-dai che wrote: ↑
01 Apr 2018, 02:27


Here in our place mass shooting is rampant due to the issue of drugs. It is so sad when we heard some people who are not the target are being killed.
There are certainly gun related crimes in America that involve drugs. However, generally, the mass shootings in places like Parkland and Las Vegas don't involve drug crimes. I find it interesting the difference in experience regarding mass shootings in US vs. Great Britain. I would be curious to understand if that difference is just related to gun control laws or also a different cultural perspective on use of guns.
I guess, culture affects this law. In our country, all my countrymen are being told, "shoot if it is necessary, do not be afraid."
What country is that, if you don't mind me asking?

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