How much responsibility falls on the NRA?

Use this forum to discuss the March 2018 Book of the Month, "Final Notice" by Van Fleisher.
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Cvogel5487
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Re: How much responsibility falls on the NRA?

Post by Cvogel5487 » 22 Mar 2018, 07:49

onixpam wrote:
20 Mar 2018, 09:50
I do not think the NRA is responsible, the real problem is our society, our families. In many families, the children only have the television as the nanny, action movies, war movies, where the hero never gets hurt, or the bad guys escape intact, they think the life is like their movies. The parents are never present and they never really know the issues that their kids are living. In order to change the gun problems, we have to change as a society.
I think if training were mandatory when purchasing weapons, a lot of accidents could be avoided. People are quick to blame parents, but when both parents must work to support their family because the cost of living is higher than wages, many children are left to fend for themselves for hours every day. This is a very complex issue, and I do not believe it to be as simple as to blame the parents for not being around.
Yes children need to be taught that weapons are never toys and should be handled with respect, and that the only reason for having and handling a weapon it to inflict pain on something. So I think if all adults had to have some sort of regulated training when buying weapons, and then teach their children to respect the weapons, (as well as locking them up safely) many more incidents could be avoided.
I cannot say the NRA is or is not at fault in real life, though they do pay legislators to vote in their favor of less gun control. So maybe if the US legislators would vote for what the majority of citizens want (better background checks, limits for anyone with any criminal history, a longer waiting period, better training) we could be as gun safe as some of the other major civilizations in the world.

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Post by Paul78 » 23 Mar 2018, 14:02

If one is allowed to sell rat poison in wholesale, would it be their fault when most users convert it to self-destruction instead of dealing with the rodents?
Guns being a sensitive matter require one to look at the bigger picture. Who has authorized the NRA to offer guns to the public at a discount? Why would they target senior citizens?
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Post by n-dai che » 23 Mar 2018, 22:31

Paul78 wrote:
23 Mar 2018, 14:02
If one is allowed to sell rat poison in wholesale, would it be their fault when most users convert it to self-destruction instead of dealing with the rodents?
Guns being a sensitive matter require one to look at the bigger picture. Who has authorized the NRA to offer guns to the public at a discount? Why would they target senior citizens?
Nice observation .why would they target senior citizens? My idea is because they think seniors had only a few days to live, I guess.

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Post by R-g-R » 25 Mar 2018, 00:54

Spirit Wandering wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 10:52
I haven't read this work yet. However, from the reviews I have looked at, it would appear that the author argues in favor of gun control, which would put the book in a positon directly opposite the NRA. While I haven't read the book, I am very familiar with the NRA's views and actions. I would argue that the NRA definitely has some responsibility for mass shootings, by adamantly opposing any and all gun controls. Although I would also argue that the societal issues that result in mass shootings go a lot deeper than the efforts of the NRA.

A brief primer about the NRA for anyone who isn't familiar with them. In 2015, the last year for which I could find online their required annual reporting, their revenue was almost $400 million. In the world of non-profit organizations, that makes them a very large one indeed. They are organized as a 501(c)4 non-profit, which designates them as a "social welfare" organization. Personally, I find this designation ironic, given their activities. However, I would imagine that their members feel that the organization's stated mission to "protect" the constitution, particularly regarding the second amendment, would meet the standard of promoting social welfare.
Huge responsibility lies with the NRA! (And all senators and members of Congress who support them and do their bidding.)
I have read the book and am keenly watching current related events in the US. I am from Australia so was not aware of the non-profit status of the NRA but that is laughable, shocking and/or disgusting (probably all three). They are absolutely and clearly making huge profits. Why do they need to ‘buy’ senators and members of Congress (I mean, ‘donate’ to their campaigns, of course) if they are genuine non-profits? Also, what other non-profits have the marketing budget of the NRA? If they adhered to the ethical values of the majority of social welfare organisations, they would be fighting FOR stricter gun controls and laws that were at least as tough as alcohol usage, and even stronger than that! Automatic weapons would clearly not be available to individuals, no matter what age. Also, no genuine social welfare organisation is going to market weapons for children.

In Australia we now have plain-packaging laws for the sale of cigarettes. Packets are not visible at grocery store or shopping centre check-outs, but those wanting them must go to a specific counter for purchase. Of course there are also age limits and ID may be asked for, plus photos of diseased lungs and similar are on the packaging. This is as a response to significant cancer rates related to smoking. Gun sales, packaging and advertising should be the same as this in the US and globally. If the NRA was ethical and concerned for the lives of all those shot and killed or injured by their products, they would immediately do the same.

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Post by n-dai che » 25 Mar 2018, 02:04

@ R-g-R. wow, I like your comment because it gives further clarification about the NRA. If they don't make it as a business, the world will not be in chaos. And seems the business still growing up until this day.

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Post by Felice01 » 25 Mar 2018, 07:41

A lot of responsibility falls on the NRA what's wrong with making it harder to get a gun and with that said how are guns being sold on the street? Something has to change. Longer wait period no mental health issues. The more I think about it NRA plays a part but their needs to be stiffer laws in place too. Bring back the death penalty because people don't care about human lives anymore.

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Post by n-dai che » 25 Mar 2018, 20:08

Felice01 wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 07:41
A lot of responsibility falls on the NRA what's wrong with making it harder to get a gun and with that said how are guns being sold on the street? Something has to change. Longer wait period no mental health issues. The more I think about it NRA plays a part but their needs to be stiffer laws in place too. Bring back the death penalty because people don't care about human lives anymore.
You have a direct point as well. When guns are easily accessible, killings will be rampant because of "self-defense- I kill that person to defense myself. "

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Post by Sarah_Khan » 26 Mar 2018, 11:57

I think the NRA should take some responsibility for what happens in the shootings in the book. I find it funny that we are getting restrictions on what we can and can't eat, but no one wants to admit that we need more gun control.

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Post by Tzara Drusak » 26 Mar 2018, 17:07

I can't decide if it was corporate negligence on the NRA's part or just downright inhumanity that allowed them to incessantly advocate for gun use and lack of gun use regulations. They posit that owning guns to protect against other gun users is the right stance to take, yet the more guns a society has access to, the more their crime rate increases.

The NRA was portrayed as the uncaring big bad who's looking to make a buck from preying on the helpless victims of crime, without creating an active method of preventing continued victimization. This, however, served to highlight the way the elderly are mistreated, a dominant theme in the book.
And in the end, we were all just humans... Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness.

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Post by Spirit Wandering » 26 Mar 2018, 17:34

R-g-R wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 00:54
Spirit Wandering wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 10:52

A brief primer about the NRA for anyone who isn't familiar with them. In 2015, the last year for which I could find online their required annual reporting, their revenue was almost $400 million. In the world of non-profit organizations, that makes them a very large one indeed. They are organized as a 501(c)4 non-profit, which designates them as a "social welfare" organization. Personally, I find this designation ironic, given their activities. However, I would imagine that their members feel that the organization's stated mission to "protect" the constitution, particularly regarding the second amendment, would meet the standard of promoting social welfare.
I have read the book and am keenly watching current related events in the US. I am from Australia so was not aware of the non-profit status of the NRA but that is laughable, shocking and/or disgusting (probably all three). They are absolutely and clearly making huge profits. Why do they need to ‘buy’ senators and members of Congress (I mean, ‘donate’ to their campaigns, of course) if they are genuine non-profits? Also, what other non-profits have the marketing budget of the NRA? If they adhered to the ethical values of the majority of social welfare organisations, they would be fighting FOR stricter gun controls and laws that were at least as tough as alcohol usage, and even stronger than that! Automatic weapons would clearly not be available to individuals, no matter what age. Also, no genuine social welfare organisation is going to market weapons for children.
Thanks for your reply. It is always interesting to get a perspective of how things work in other countries. The US laws around non-profits make them an interesting mishmash. There are a number of different categories, so not all of them are the traditional charities we typically think of as a non-profit. Some of them, such as certain foundations, are very wealthy. Then there are the types of charitable organizations that I work with on a daily basis. They struggle to meet their annual budgets and keep their doors open while providing vital mental health and substance abuse services, food access, etc. for needy populations.
Interested in books that help one's spirit move beyond the ordinary.

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Post by n-dai che » 27 Mar 2018, 23:10

Tzara Drusak wrote:
26 Mar 2018, 17:07
I can't decide if it was corporate negligence on the NRA's part or just downright inhumanity that allowed them to incessantly advocate for gun use and lack of gun use regulations. They posit that owning guns to protect against other gun users is the right stance to take, yet the more guns a society has access to, the more their crime rate increases.

The NRA was portrayed as the uncaring big bad who's looking to make a buck from preying on the helpless victims of crime, without creating an active method of preventing continued victimization. This, however, served to highlight the way the elderly are mistreated, a dominant theme in the book.
You have the point! There are plenty of people that are yield responsible. Everything has its own part. It is so sad that someone's life is being sacrifice. :(

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Post by britt13 » 28 Mar 2018, 19:35

I absolutely loathe the NRA and their tactics. In the book I thought the discount was disgusting. I think the fact they line politicians pockets and spew falsities is terrible. All of that being said, I do not think they are really responsible for the actions taken in the book. They encouraged people to arm themselves, not to commit crimes. Just because something is vile does not mean it causes everything.

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Post by britt13 » 28 Mar 2018, 19:36

kandscreeley wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 20:52
I'm not so sure. When a drug that the FDA has approved turns out to be deadly, people blame the drug manufacturer not the FDA. Isn't this similar?
That is an amazing comparison. I wish I had thought of it! I agree with you, while I do not like the NRA and I think they use dirty practices, that does not make them responsible for crimes committed. The FDA allows drugs onto the market just like the NRA helps guns get out there. Thank you for this picture!

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Post by britt13 » 28 Mar 2018, 19:37

HouseOfAtticus wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 05:24
Not exactly. The FDA might approve the drug, but they don't actively promote it. And in this case, it is known that guns are deadly.
The FDA may not actively promote a drug but they are what enables a drug to be used. I feel like that is very similar to the NRA, with their fighting to keep the right to have guns. I am not pro NRA by any means, I just think the comparison that kandscreeley made was apt.

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Post by britt13 » 28 Mar 2018, 19:44

khusnick wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 17:00
kandscreeley wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 20:52
I'm not so sure. When a drug that the FDA has approved turns out to be deadly, people blame the drug manufacturer not the FDA. Isn't this similar?
The FDA doesn't try to push for the things they approve to be used or bought. The FDA doesn't lobby for political campaigns. The NRA has been harassing survivors of the Parkland shooting. Personally, I don't think anyone in the FDA would be doing that if someone survived after taking drugs that killed other people or to the people that were related to the deceased.

The FDA looks into their mistakes. They're willing to change their approvals when things become deadly. The NRA pushes for more guns in response to a gun problem. It's not quite the same. They absolutely are responsible because pumping more guns into the hands of angry and clearly sensitive people is their only answer. They want more sales because they get their money from corporations that want more sales, and they use that money to convince politicians to be complicit in the deaths of innocent people in huge numbers.
The Parkland shooting is not in the book though. I know that we think of the NRA in terms of in society but as for the book, they are not doing much of what you are listing. I am not for the NRA, quite the opposite, but I just think that the comparison works better than you are giving it credit for.

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