The Green Valley Gun Show Field Trip

Use this forum to discuss the March 2018 Book of the Month, "Final Notice" by Van Fleisher.
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Christina Rose
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Re: The Green Valley Gun Show Field Trip

Post by Christina Rose » 03 Mar 2018, 02:20

kfwilson6 wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 10:15
I was really thrown off by the idea of the field trip too. I have mixed feelings about this. On the pro side I would say that any mentally capable adult in the community should be able to choose his or her activities and guns may have been a lifelong interest for some residents. They may have been military, police, or gun collectors. Nothing wrong with engaging in this type of show. My hesitation is with those who were not mentally capable and even so, the idea of them going to the show is not such a big deal, but the idea of them having the approval to make purchases and then keep them at the retirement community is a huge problem. I don't happen to know anyone living in this type of situation so I don't know if guns would be allowed or not, but I would not be at all surprised for them to be banned. The issue of mental capacity here is really the defining point for me. Rational decision making is essential. You wouldn't allow a 6 year old to buy a gun because they don't have the maturity to make "adult" decisions about its use.
I'm sure that guns are not allowed to be kept with residents or employees in an actual nursing facility, but the scenario does make you stop to think. I agree that some seniors in these facilities may have had a life long interest in guns, hunting, and things like that. Unfortunately, communities like this really aren't the right places to further such interests. Perhaps going to a gun show wouldn't be a problem if the resident were to leave anything purchased with his or her Power of Attorney or family member. Then, the resident could sign out for a vacation, day trip, or general outing, and maybe go to a gun range or something like that. It's important for the residents to continue doing the things they enjoyed doing before, but it all has to be within reason.

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Post by Christina Rose » 03 Mar 2018, 02:32

kandscreeley wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 20:48
I am kind of against the idea of taking assisted living residents or nursing home residents to buy guns. I see no reason they should have guns in those type of cases.
I agree that there should be no reason for a resident to keep a gun at this type of facility. I also don't think it is the place of an administer, director, or other staff member to bring a resident to make such a purchase. It would be different if the power of attorney picked up the resident, took him or her to purchase a gun, then kept it safe elsewhere - maybe to be used at a shooting range or something.

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Post by jessinikkip » 03 Mar 2018, 16:24

Exactly, Christina. I know that my grandmother was in a nursing home at the end of her life and even from being her family side of it, they knew exactly what she had in that room. Surely they'd have known about two guns and all the ammo to go with them (not that hers would let you, but still...) If they know the person has exactly twelve pair of pants, they know they have two guns.

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Post by CatInTheHat » 03 Mar 2018, 21:41

JessNWheeler wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 13:21
I’m surprised that the care home was okay with the possibility of have heavily armed residents. Clearly, it was a terrible idea. If my family member was living there, I would have had a huge problem with this field trip.
My thoughts exactly! Often, dementia is present before it is known to others. Guns shouldn't be encouraged in this setting.
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Post by Roggyrus » 05 Mar 2018, 02:35

The Green Valley Gun Show Field Trip is just an innocuous event like any other field trip, that is if the mass shooting is concerned. The motive of arming the elderly is to prepare them for threats of bullies and physical harm stronger people would inflict on them. But with regards to the mass shooting, anyone with a deranged mind may be predisposed to do it, young, elderly, male or female.

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Post by DancingLady » 05 Mar 2018, 09:28

That’s a tough question because I absolutely support the elderly being allowed to make their own independent decisions up until the point they are known to be cognitively impaired, should the individual have that misfortune.

That said, I do not think it wise in any way to encourage interest in guns among individuals known, and who should know themselves if their minds are clear, that many in their group have lost the physical ability to handle a gun safely and aim steadily.

I would say that if the seniors requested this field trip, they should not be denied unless individuals known to be unqualified were insisting on going. If it was something the activities director came up with, I would say that was a very unwise and irresponsible thing to do.

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Post by kfwilson6 » 06 Mar 2018, 12:37

DancingLady wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 09:28
That’s a tough question because I absolutely support the elderly being allowed to make their own independent decisions up until the point they are known to be cognitively impaired, should the individual have that misfortune.

That said, I do not think it wise in any way to encourage interest in guns among individuals known, and who should know themselves if their minds are clear, that many in their group have lost the physical ability to handle a gun safely and aim steadily.

I would say that if the seniors requested this field trip, they should not be denied unless individuals known to be unqualified were insisting on going. If it was something the activities director came up with, I would say that was a very unwise and irresponsible thing to do.
Ah, good point about their physical ability to hold a gun. I did have someone take me to a range one time and the gun I shot was awfully heavy and hard to hold up for more than a couple shots. If a potential user is incapable of holding the gun upright and steady, he should definitely not be handling one.

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Post by kfwilson6 » 06 Mar 2018, 12:40

Roggyrus wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 02:35
The Green Valley Gun Show Field Trip is just an innocuous event like any other field trip, that is if the mass shooting is concerned. The motive of arming the elderly is to prepare them for threats of bullies and physical harm stronger people would inflict on them. But with regards to the mass shooting, anyone with a deranged mind may be predisposed to do it, young, elderly, male or female.
Absolutely. It's not always terrorists and criminals who should be denied access to certain things. I truly believe that at a certain age, people should have their vision checked in order to renew their driver's license. You must be CAPABLE of the privilege you are requesting be granted to you.

Unfortunately there is no good answer that I know of for elderly people to protect themselves if they are beyond the point of being responsible gun owners. You don't want to take away their ability to protect themselves, but in giving them that ability, we cannot put someone else in harm's way.

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Post by LivreAmour217 » 06 Mar 2018, 14:05

JessNWheeler wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 13:21
I’m surprised that the care home was okay with the possibility of have heavily armed residents. Clearly, it was a terrible idea. If my family member was living there, I would have had a huge problem with this field trip.
I thought the same thing. Most facilities like this one would NOT allow the residents to have firearms! Could you imagine someone with Alzheimer's having access to a gun? I really don't think that this event would happen in the real world.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein

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Post by LivreAmour217 » 06 Mar 2018, 14:10

kfwilson6 wrote:
06 Mar 2018, 12:37
DancingLady wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 09:28
That’s a tough question because I absolutely support the elderly being allowed to make their own independent decisions up until the point they are known to be cognitively impaired, should the individual have that misfortune.

That said, I do not think it wise in any way to encourage interest in guns among individuals known, and who should know themselves if their minds are clear, that many in their group have lost the physical ability to handle a gun safely and aim steadily.

I would say that if the seniors requested this field trip, they should not be denied unless individuals known to be unqualified were insisting on going. If it was something the activities director came up with, I would say that was a very unwise and irresponsible thing to do.
Ah, good point about their physical ability to hold a gun. I did have someone take me to a range one time and the gun I shot was awfully heavy and hard to hold up for more than a couple shots. If a potential user is incapable of holding the gun upright and steady, he should definitely not be handling one.
This crossed my mind as well. I am a veteran, and I was trained to use an M16 rifle, which weighs about seven pounds. Seven pounds doesn't sound like much, but it's harder to hold steady than most people realize. I imagine that an 89-year-old in a wheelchair would really struggle to hold a gun steady. He might not be able to do so, at least not for very long.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein

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Post by DancingLady » 06 Mar 2018, 15:49

I would add, it seems only reasonable that if a retirement center allowed residents to have guns on the property, they would have to declare them to the management and care givers so that, when a gun owner shows signs of being unqualified, due to physical or mental decline, they can be quickly evaluated professionally and the gun removed respectfully when necessary.

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Post by ccrews0408 » 06 Mar 2018, 16:03

I think the field trip to a gun show is odd but what's even more so is allowing them to actually purchase guns. Why would anyone living in a nursing home need a gun. If they feel so unsafe, maybe they should pick a new nursing home.

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Post by sepicatt » 06 Mar 2018, 22:28

SPasciuti wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 12:55
I have a pretty strong opinion on this. After extensive reading on the subject, I still just don’t understand how people seem to think they need guns. At the end of the day, these weapons cause more harm than good and I frankly think it’s disturbing and ridiculous that he was permitted to buy guns and bring them back to a communal setting.

Naturally, I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but there are times and places for guns and a Senior Citizen’s Home is not one of them.
So one thing I will say about this...guns were allowed but a senior CANNOT bring their pet to a citizen's home. Yet, animals are proven to help with depression and other emotional needs. Now of course I wouldn't say bring a dangerous animal but having volunteered for rescues and shelters, there are so many elderly animals who come in bc an elderly owner has to go into a communal setting. It makes no sense to me that guns are ok but a dog or cat is not.

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Post by stacie k » 09 Mar 2018, 14:18

I'm perplexed as to what the Green Valley's mission statement might be and how a gun show would fit into that. The senior center in my community offers activities such as gardening, quilting, sewing, exercise classes, and book club. All of these activities promote community and health. It seems dangerous and irresponsible to me to take these senior residents (who are likely to have dementia, memory problems, or other emotional issues) to a gun show where they can easily purchase guns and ammunition and then not monitor the storage and access to such items.
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Post by lavellan » 09 Mar 2018, 14:51

I think that it was inappropriate. Most people who are in nursing homes don’t have the coordination or mental faculty to handle such a dangerous weapon.

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