Well I think what he may have meant is that one is able to get the details right if they learn it from a native speaker. For instance, issues of tonation become less of a problem.Robyn Lea wrote:Elias says that the best way to learn English is through a native speaker. I disagree. Ok, I have to admit I learned to speak Spanish in a Spanish-speaking country. However, I have met people who learned English in a non-English speaking country.
What do you think? What's the best way to learn another language (music, other)? Is it necessary to learn from a "native?"
If you could learn a second or third language which one would you want to learn? Why?
Learning another language
- meteku4
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Re: Learning another language
- PashaRu
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Interestingly, most of my students now don't want grammar instruction. They want conversation practice. That is something they don't get in the countries in which they live. And if they do have opportunities to speak, it is most often with other non-native speakers who don't speak the language perfectly either.
Grammar can be taught well by both native and non-native speakers (or it can be learned from a book). Often, non-natives understand grammar better than natives, as they themselves had to learn grammatical structure and rules in order to teach the language. (I have been learning Russian for 11 years, and I have taught basic Russian language courses. I understand and can explain Russian grammar better than many Russians, but I certainly don't speak the language like a native Russian.)
When it comes to pronunciation, native sentence structure, native intonation, conversational speech, subtleties of usage, and especially idioms (and in English, phrasal verbs), there is no substitute for a native speaker.
- meteku4
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I completely agree with you.PashaRu wrote:I have been an ESL teacher for ten years (English is my native language), and I have taught English abroad, online, and in the United States. When I lived abroad, I interacted with quite a few ESL teachers who were non-natives, and none of them spoke perfect English. And they all spoke with an accent.
Interestingly, most of my students now don't want grammar instruction. They want conversation practice. That is something they don't get in the countries in which they live. And if they do have opportunities to speak, it is most often with other non-native speakers who don't speak the language perfectly either.
Grammar can be taught by both native and non-native speakers (or it can be learned from a book). Often, non-natives understand grammar better than natives, as they themselves had to learn grammatical structure and rules in order to teach the language. (I have been learning Russian for 11 years, and I have taught basic Russian language courses. I understand and can explain Russian grammar better than many Russians, but I certainly don't speak the language like a native Russian.)
When it comes to pronunciation, native sentence structure, native intonation, subtleties of usage, and especially idioms (and in English, phrasal verbs), there is no substitute for a native speaker.
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I work in ESL and I've had the same experiences. I think that when you're just beginning a language, it's not necessary to have a native teacher. It can help get your ear accustomed to the sounds, but other than that, the concepts can be learned and explained well by anyone. Native speakers are much more essential the more advanced you become in your language. When you start picking up colloquialisms and idioms and need the right tones and intonations, that's where a native speaker can be most helpful. So it doesn't surprise me that we've both had the experience that when students seek us native speakers out, what they want most of all is conversation practice. That's our specialty as native speakers, I guess, ha ha.PashaRu wrote: ↑13 Oct 2017, 16:11 I have been an ESL teacher for ten years (English is my native language), and I have taught English abroad, online, and in the United States. When I lived abroad, I interacted with quite a few ESL teachers who were non-natives, and none of them spoke perfect English. And they all spoke with an accent.
Interestingly, most of my students now don't want grammar instruction. They want conversation practice. That is something they don't get in the countries in which they live. And if they do have opportunities to speak, it is most often with other non-native speakers who don't speak the language perfectly either.
Grammar can be taught well by both native and non-native speakers (or it can be learned from a book). Often, non-natives understand grammar better than natives, as they themselves had to learn grammatical structure and rules in order to teach the language. (I have been learning Russian for 11 years, and I have taught basic Russian language courses. I understand and can explain Russian grammar better than many Russians, but I certainly don't speak the language like a native Russian.)
When it comes to pronunciation, native sentence structure, native intonation, conversational speech, subtleties of usage, and especially idioms (and in English, phrasal verbs), there is no substitute for a native speaker.
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