Learning another language

Discuss the July 2017 Book of the Month, My Trip to Adele by A.I.Alyaseer and R.I.Alyaseer.

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meteku4
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Re: Learning another language

Post by meteku4 »

Robyn Lea wrote:Elias says that the best way to learn English is through a native speaker. I disagree. Ok, I have to admit I learned to speak Spanish in a Spanish-speaking country. However, I have met people who learned English in a non-English speaking country.

What do you think? What's the best way to learn another language (music, other)? Is it necessary to learn from a "native?"

If you could learn a second or third language which one would you want to learn? Why?
Well I think what he may have meant is that one is able to get the details right if they learn it from a native speaker. For instance, issues of tonation become less of a problem.
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Post by PashaRu »

I have been an ESL teacher for ten years (English is my native language), and I have taught English abroad, online, and in the United States. When I lived abroad, I interacted with quite a few ESL teachers who were non-natives, and none of them spoke perfect English. And they all spoke with an accent.

Interestingly, most of my students now don't want grammar instruction. They want conversation practice. That is something they don't get in the countries in which they live. And if they do have opportunities to speak, it is most often with other non-native speakers who don't speak the language perfectly either.

Grammar can be taught well by both native and non-native speakers (or it can be learned from a book). Often, non-natives understand grammar better than natives, as they themselves had to learn grammatical structure and rules in order to teach the language. (I have been learning Russian for 11 years, and I have taught basic Russian language courses. I understand and can explain Russian grammar better than many Russians, but I certainly don't speak the language like a native Russian.)

When it comes to pronunciation, native sentence structure, native intonation, conversational speech, subtleties of usage, and especially idioms (and in English, phrasal verbs), there is no substitute for a native speaker.
Last edited by PashaRu on 13 Oct 2017, 16:16, edited 2 times in total.
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meteku4
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Post by meteku4 »

PashaRu wrote:I have been an ESL teacher for ten years (English is my native language), and I have taught English abroad, online, and in the United States. When I lived abroad, I interacted with quite a few ESL teachers who were non-natives, and none of them spoke perfect English. And they all spoke with an accent.

Interestingly, most of my students now don't want grammar instruction. They want conversation practice. That is something they don't get in the countries in which they live. And if they do have opportunities to speak, it is most often with other non-native speakers who don't speak the language perfectly either.

Grammar can be taught by both native and non-native speakers (or it can be learned from a book). Often, non-natives understand grammar better than natives, as they themselves had to learn grammatical structure and rules in order to teach the language. (I have been learning Russian for 11 years, and I have taught basic Russian language courses. I understand and can explain Russian grammar better than many Russians, but I certainly don't speak the language like a native Russian.)

When it comes to pronunciation, native sentence structure, native intonation, subtleties of usage, and especially idioms (and in English, phrasal verbs), there is no substitute for a native speaker.
I completely agree with you.
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Post by Doaa Wael »

I think the book meant a native speaker (or a non-native who speaks like a native). I believe the best way to pick up on a language is via conversing with others who speak it fluently. It is a miracle how sometimes spending a lot of time with people who speak a foreign language, you would start to understand what they are saying to a significant interest.
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Post by Scrawling Pen »

I would agree that learning a different language is easiest when you are fully immersed in it, like when living in a country where that language is spoken. As long as you are dedicated, you can learn the language anywhere, but it is going to take a lot of work!
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Post by ktom »

I totally agree that the best way to learn a language is from a native speaker, or at least this is what worked best for me. I am currently traveling through Europe and I am living in the northern part of Spain right now and I didn't know any Spanish when I arrived. Listening to native speakers while they are having casual conversations in cafes, restaurants, stores and shops is the best way to learn how to communicate your basic needs to others.
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Post by Penny Lee »

Learning another language works best when you are immersed in it. Native speakers not only provide the correct pronunciation, they understand the nuances of how to use their language. Programs like Rosetta Stone can be helpful, as can TV programs, radio, etc. in the language you are wanting to learn, but I do agree that learning from native speakers is the best method.
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Post by ayoomisope »

One doesn't need to learn a language from a native speaker. Even with access to a native speaker, lack of commitment to learning will slow down learning. I agree that being in the country where the language is spoken will improve learning propensity.
I would love to learn French, Spanish and Mandarin.
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Post by DustinPBrown »

PashaRu wrote: 13 Oct 2017, 16:11 I have been an ESL teacher for ten years (English is my native language), and I have taught English abroad, online, and in the United States. When I lived abroad, I interacted with quite a few ESL teachers who were non-natives, and none of them spoke perfect English. And they all spoke with an accent.

Interestingly, most of my students now don't want grammar instruction. They want conversation practice. That is something they don't get in the countries in which they live. And if they do have opportunities to speak, it is most often with other non-native speakers who don't speak the language perfectly either.

Grammar can be taught well by both native and non-native speakers (or it can be learned from a book). Often, non-natives understand grammar better than natives, as they themselves had to learn grammatical structure and rules in order to teach the language. (I have been learning Russian for 11 years, and I have taught basic Russian language courses. I understand and can explain Russian grammar better than many Russians, but I certainly don't speak the language like a native Russian.)

When it comes to pronunciation, native sentence structure, native intonation, conversational speech, subtleties of usage, and especially idioms (and in English, phrasal verbs), there is no substitute for a native speaker.
I work in ESL and I've had the same experiences. I think that when you're just beginning a language, it's not necessary to have a native teacher. It can help get your ear accustomed to the sounds, but other than that, the concepts can be learned and explained well by anyone. Native speakers are much more essential the more advanced you become in your language. When you start picking up colloquialisms and idioms and need the right tones and intonations, that's where a native speaker can be most helpful. So it doesn't surprise me that we've both had the experience that when students seek us native speakers out, what they want most of all is conversation practice. That's our specialty as native speakers, I guess, ha ha.
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Post by onixpam »

Learn a foreign language is not easy, in my case I had the opportunity watching movies, taking online courses for other subjects, and forcing me to read books and internet articles. I still need practice, but I least I can communicate what I think. So I disagree with Elias, but if we want to speak perfectly maybe we need native spoken people to help us.
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Post by Sakilunamermaid »

I wouldn't say it is necessary to learn another language from a native speaker. You may end up with a different accent but there are so many variations on words and pronunciation based on the community/ region. I would love to learn Italian and Japanese. Both areas have amazing art, food, and culture. I would just like to experience that and understand even just a little of what is going on around me.
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Post by Laura Ungureanu »

I would like to learn german. Depending on the difficulty of the language, you can learn it with or without a native. It helps you, but someone who visited that country or studied there can help as much as a native. If you try to learn it by yourself, it will be too hard. My mother is a french teacher. She only saw France for like a week, but she knows everything, she met people from there. The environment in which she learned is the most important factor. And I lived with her, in her environment sometimes and that helped me learn french. I never studied it, I just grew with it. So I don't know it very good, but I can have a small conversation with someone from France.
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Post by jvez »

It is possible to learn a language from non-native speakers. However, it is indeed always better to learn from a native speaker. But the best option will be, to learn while living in a community where native speakers live as well. Regular use of the language is always import when learning. Also, there are some aspects in a language--mainly those that can't be explained clearly in textbooks--that sometimes only native speakers know, or at least know better to explain.
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Post by 10mile72 »

I give anybody who learns a second or third or fourth language A LOT of credit. I'm still struggling with English. Even so, I think the best way to learn another language is exposure from people around you.
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Post by Dusamae »

For me, learning from a computer was not effective because I got bored. I think to be able to take what I had learned and talked with somebody that spoke the language would have given me the determination to keep learning.
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