A Quiz - What Book Is This ?

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A Quiz - What Book Is This ?

Post by DATo » 26 Feb 2013, 04:50

See if you can guess the book I am describing. Please read all ten points before going to the bottom of the post for the answer.

1) A young boy (the main character, whose name is in the title of the book) is endowed with special gifts and has a very special and important destiny.

2) When the book opens he is living with a family under unusual circumstances and in this family there is another boy who treats him very badly.

3) He is taken to a special (and very unusual) school to develop his very special (and very unusual) abilities, and at this school other children who also have special attributes and abilities are also enrolled.

4) Another male member in his family's past was also part of this program before the events of the book take place and had a very high achievement record.

5) He thinks of his parents and is very sad until he befriends two other children at the "school" - a boy and a girl.

6) Of the two new friends the girl appears to have a very high aptitude for some of the things taught at the school.

7) Some of the other children at the school are part of a clique and motivated by their leader they mistreat the main character and hold him in disdain and contempt. The main character does not want to be associated with this group.

8) The main character takes part in a competition sanctioned by the school in which two teams of competitors must fly through the air to accomplish a special task. The main character soon becomes a legendary player and is regarded as the best to have ever competed.

9) It is hard to determine if one of the main character's adult overseers is actually a friend or a villain.

10) The adults at the school are aware that the main character is the only hope to defeat an upcoming, evil menace which threatens the world, and they monitor his progress carefully.

Do you think you know the name of this book ?

.
.
.
.

I haven't even finished the book yet but already the comparisons are enough to make me throw up. The name of the book is Ender's Game and it was written by Orson Scott Card in 1985. Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling wasn't written till 1997. A finer case of plagiarism I have never seen !!! I'm looking forward to all of the other things Rowling heisted from Card as I continue to read the book.

We might be able to have some fun with this. Describe a book that you think will fool other forum members into confusing it with some other book.
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Post by Gannon » 26 Feb 2013, 20:13

@DATo - Wow, I really have to read this book. :D
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Post by A24 » 27 Feb 2013, 07:00

I say Wow too! Ender's Game is on my TBR also. Funny, I've never heard of this comparison before but that is just way too similar. When I was reading your clues, I thought "c'mon, really? so simple - Harry Potter".
Besides the books being similar, and getting a different view of Rowling now, are you enjoying Ender's Game?
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Post by Fran » 27 Feb 2013, 07:20

@DATo that is really amazing .... like everyone else I was saying "way too easy, has to be Harry Potter" as I read your post (even though I've never read HP but going on what I've heard!).
That is quite extraordinary, you have me thinking now about the comment I posted on The Casual Vacancy, that it kept reminding me of Joanna Trollope's books :shock: :shock:

Note to aspiring authors: BEWARE THE DATo SCALPEL :wink:
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Post by DATo » 27 Feb 2013, 11:20

It really blew me away. I was reading the book and enjoying it but I kept saying to myself, where have I come across this story before?. It was like WAY to familiar to me but I knew I had never read Ender's Game before. Finally it dawned on me that this was a lot like the Harry Potter stories .... but then, I started thinking about it some more and couldn't believe how MANY things were like the Harry Potter stories.

A24 - Yes, it's a good book. Almost done with it and I feel fairly confident in recommending it.

Fran- The "DATo scapel" ? *LOL*

Gannon - Just put Harry Potter in a space suit and you can save yourself the trouble of reading it *LOL* No, actually it is a pretty good book and there are many fundamental differences which make Ender's Game worth the time to read.
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Post by Gannon » 27 Feb 2013, 18:33

Thanks DATo, I am going to add it to my TBR. I will try to spot the similarities while reading it. :D
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Post by DATo » 28 Feb 2013, 05:48

Gannon wrote:Thanks DATo, I am going to add it to my TBR. I will try to spot the similarities while reading it. :D
Greetings Gannon,

Ender's Game is written in a much more serious vein than the Harry Potter stories. Despite my earlier criticism of Rowling I must confess that (((IF))) she did "borrow" from Card's book - and I find it difficult to believe that she didn't - she also did a fantastic job with what she borrowed. Also, Ender's Game was written in a very basic "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" style. Card has actually been criticized for the simplistic style of his writing but once you get immersed in the story you soon forget about style and become fascinated by the events taking place. This book, much like the first Harry Potter's adventure, Sorcerer's Stone, is the first part of a series and is focused on the schooling of the main character. Not a lot of bang, bang shootem ups in this book but it is still a very good read with plenty of excitement in my opinion.

If you REALLY want to be blown away watch the movie Dances With Wolves and then watch the relatively new sic-fi movie Avatar. It is almost EXACTLY the same story told in the form of a different genre.

I find myself torn between disgust with writers who can't seem to come up with original material and praise for what they eventually do with the material they borrow. In the case of both of the books and movies I've mentioned, the new productions, (Avatar & Harry Potter), were absolutely outstanding.

I would love to hear Rowling's views on this and I can't believe no one has ever asked her about this before.

I think you will like Ender's Game. If you read it let me know what you think.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[EDIT]

Oooooooooooops !!! Lookie what I just found online:

Rowling has never openly credited any single author with inspiration, saying, "I haven't got the faintest idea where my ideas come from, or how my imagination works. I'm just grateful that it does, because it gives me more entertainment than it gives anyone else."

AND !!!

Science fiction author Orson Scott Card, in a fierce editorial in response to Rowling's copyright lawsuit against the Harry Potter Lexicon, claimed that her assertion that she had had her "words stolen" was rendered moot by the fact that he could draw numerous comparisons between her books and his own 1985 novel Ender's Game.

-- February 28th, 2013, 7:04 am --

I have just finished Ender's Game and within the last hour have changed my recommendation from "Fairly confident in recommending it" to .... a must read. Killer ending ... do not read up on it before reading book.
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Post by Maud Fitch » 02 Mar 2013, 04:21

Not that old "J K Rowling plagiarised my book" routine. Two well documented cases spring to mind, Diana Wynne Jones and A S Byatt - one forgiving and one vitriolic - and ironically the three ladies in question had rather troubled childhoods.

I thought I'd quote a Diana Wynne Jones interview from The Guardian UK:

Quote 'Her best-known character is Chrestomanci, a dapper wizard somewhat in the Mary Poppins mould. The first Chrestomanci novel, Charmed Life, won the 1977 Guardian award for children's fiction. Despite critical acclaim, Wynne Jones's novels were languishing with a publisher, until they were discovered by HarperCollins, looking for magical tales in the wake of Harry Potter. At the time, Wynne Jones hadn't even heard of Rowling.

But children reading the reissued Chrestomanci books soon commented on the likeness to Harry Potter: school background to the magic, referring to a character as one who must not be named. "I think," says Jones, "that she [Rowling] read my books as a young person and remembered lots of stuff; there are so many striking similarities."

Does she feel certain things got "downloaded", perhaps? "I feel slightly aggrieved," she says, "but it happens so easily - one retains something in one's mind. I would like to ask her about it, but she's hard to meet: she was very frightened by all the publishing furore." With typical generosity of spirit she acknowledges Rowling's role in bringing children's writing out of its ghetto.' Interview Dina Rabinovitch.

As soon as the printing press was invented there were crossovers and copycats, that's why we have patents, copyright and intellectual property. But it doesn't stop books being marketed as "similar to" or "writes like". It happens in other areas too, for example music "covers" are just rehashed songs.

I don't think it matters who delivers the goods and other authors should not be blinded by their own envy.
Harry Potter was a large scale book miracle, J K Rowling was in the right place at the right time. Deal with it.
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Post by DATo » 02 Mar 2013, 05:33

Hi Maude,

I recently discussed the points I made in my original post with a coworker who happens to be a rabid Sci-fi fan and she took pretty much the same position that you have with regard to the similarities. She went on to cite several other well known characters and events from sic-fi which also had things in common with Card's character, Ender. But in the case of Ender and Harry Potter the similarities are way, way, WAAAAAAY too obvious. Eric Hoffer once wrote, "To create is to steal. When a cow eats grass the cow does not become grass ... the grass becomes a cow." There is much truth in this. Even Isaac Newton once said, "If I have seen farther it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." It is exceedingly rare to find a work which is a truly seminal creation. All authors borrow.

Orson Scott Card did not attack Rowling till SHE took the position that others were stealing from HER. It was only then that he felt justified in putting her in her place by essentially telling her that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and citing the similarities of her work to his. I do not feel that his remarks were prompted by sour grapes or "envy" or his complaints would have been sounded much earlier. In the case of Ender's Game the similarities are often found even in details of relative unimportance. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, an acknowledgement of the source(s) of Rowling's inspiration may not have been legally tenable in her contract thus, obviously, not in her (or her publisher's) best interest, but it would have served to mitigate the bad blood and criticism she has received from various sources over this issue.

As mentioned in my last post to Gannon, I feel that Rowling did a great job with the Harry Potter series and brought smiles to the faces of children of all ages. I am happy for her well-deserved success, but I also feel that a nod to the sources of her inspiration would have been a class act and far more graciously received by readers such as myself than the statement, "I haven't got the faintest idea where my ideas come from ..." This remark is an insult to perceptive readers.
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Post by lady_charlie » 22 Mar 2013, 18:59

Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now

Fuenteovejuna and Murder on the Orient Express

maybe I will stick to what I do best - reading!
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Post by DATo » 23 Mar 2013, 02:18

lady_charlie wrote:Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now

Fuenteovejuna and Murder on the Orient Express

maybe I will stick to what I do best - reading!
Hi lady_charlie,

Actually, there is a bit of a difference with regard to the first example you cite. There was never any attempt on the part of Francis Ford Coppola to dismiss the fact that Apocalypse Now was based on the Conrad novel. He even used the same name, 'Kurtz', to drive the point home that this was based on the same theme as Heart of Darkness. If asked, as Rowling was, what inspired this movie I can imagine Coppola saying, "What? Are you kidding? Isn't it obvious?" Now, can you imagine Coppola saying, "I haven't any idea where my inspiration came from." In that event, wouldn't YOU be saying ... "What? Are you kidding? Isn't it obvious?" to Coppola?

Oh !!! Please don't give up on movies!!! If you haven't seen it do yourself a favor and pick up the movie, The Red Violin. This is a film which was not based upon a book, but if it had been it would have been a blockbuster best seller in my opinion. I am on a crusade to make sure everyone on the planet sees this movie *LOL*
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Post by Lespaulgeek » 25 Mar 2013, 12:42

To quote the late Harry Morgan as Colonel Potter in M*A*S*H, "Bullhockey!"

You can find dozens of stories that have one more of these elements. Matter of fact, since both Passover and Easter are upon us you could make a good claim that both Potter and Ender are based on the stories of Moses of Jesus. Let's take a look.


1) A young boy (the main character, whose name is in the title of the book) is endowed with special gifts and has a very special and important destiny.


Okay, Jesus isn't the name of the story, but the baby Jesus was quite special and had particularly important destiny, don't you think? And the three wise endowed him with some very nice gifts.

And "Moses" isn't the name of the book he appears in, but he certainly had a very important destiny and many special gifts.


2) When the book opens he is living with a family under unusual circumstances and in this family there is another boy who treats him very badly.



For Jesus, there's that whole virgin birth thing. And, for all we know, his brother James might have picked on him as a kid.

Moses grows up with the boy who will ultimately become the Pharoah who will treat him VERY badly. And, after the exodus from Egypt, Moses' brother Aaron gets him in trouble with the Lord numerous times.


3) He is taken to a special (and very unusual) school to develop his very special (and very unusual) abilities, and at this school other children who also have special attributes and abilities are also enrolled.


Jesus was probably schooled in the ancient form of a Yeshiva, along with other gifted Jewish children. Otherwise, how would have learned to quote the Old Testament in his teachings? It's also said he was able to out-argue the rabbis when he as 12.

Moses grew up with the royal family of Egypt, and was considered to be very smart and a good fighter.


4) Another male member in his family's past was also part of this program before the events of the book take place and had a very high achievement record.


That's Jesus' cousin, John the Baptist. He was an over-achiever although unfortunately, he also lost his head over it.

Moses was a descendant of the line of Jacob, which included Joseph, who went from slavery to become the earlier Pharaoh's right hand man.

5) He thinks of his parents and is very sad until he befriends two other children at the "school" - a boy and a girl.

Jesus thinks of his Dad all the time, and when he's thirty his best friends among the apostles are Judas and Mary Magdalene.

As a youngster, Moses is good friends with the young pharaoh to be, and if you believe The Ten Commands, the Pharaoh's daughter (or niece or whatever) was his main squeeze and a pretty sharp cookie.

6) Of the two new friends the girl appears to have a very high aptitude for some of the things taught at the school.

Well, if you believe some of the gnostic gospels, Mary Magdalene was an apostle as well and had a much better understanding of Jesus's ideas than the rest of the apostles.

Assume that the Pharaoh's daughter/niece had some pretty good skills, although not necessarily spiritual.

7) Some of the other children at the school are part of a clique and motivated by their leader they mistreat the main character and hold him in disdain and contempt. The main character does not want to be associated with this group.

Jesus wanted to be associated with the Jews, but was constantly harassed by the pharisees and other members of the priestly classes, as well as Jews who didn't think he was the messiah. He held these people in contempt, and started his own Jewish sect.

And Moses lived among the Egyptian royalty, who had enslaved the Hebrews. Once Moses came to his senses, he didn't want to associate with these people either.

8) The main character takes part in a competition sanctioned by the school in which two teams of competitors must fly through the air to accomplish a special task. The main character soon becomes a legendary player and is regarded as the best to have ever competed.


Jesus was awfully good at raising the dead, healing the sick and turning water into wine and walking on water. He had a lot of competition from other would-be messiahs, and was considered the best. His greatest act was committed as he was above ground, and, after being resurrected and speaking to the apostles, he flew up to Heaven.

When the adult Moses is telling Pharaoh to let the Jews go, he plays "staff wars" against the Pharaoh's chief magician, considered to be the best in the land. The staffs turn into snakes, and Moses's staff eats the magician's.

9) It is hard to determine if one of the main character's adult overseers is actually a friend or a villain.

Jesus let Mary Magdalene wash his feet and hair. Some of the apostles didn't like this at all, and thought because she had been a whore that she was a really bad influence. And Jesus thought that Judas was both his best friend and is most closest advisor, until Judas betrayed him.

The Pharaoh started off as Moses' friend, but once Moses came to his senses they became enemies. Still, the pharaoh was ready to let the Hebrews go after a couple of the plagues, but in each occasion the Lord "hardened his heart."

10) The adults at the school are aware that the main character is the only hope to defeat an upcoming, evil menace which threatens the world, and they monitor his progress carefully.


Well, all of the apostles believed that Jesus was bringing the New Age into existence and that it would ultimately overthrow the Romans.

The Hebrews counted on Moses to deliver them from slavery, and he did it.

So you see? Both books were CLEARLY based on the New Testament. And Exodus. :P


.

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Post by FNAWrite » 25 Mar 2013, 13:23

lespaulgeek, your argument is pretty weak. In addressing the first cont4ention you plainly misconstrue the meaning of "gifts" you go on in following points to make such solid arguments as "for all we know", "might have", "probably" and "assume that" as well as citing to similarities to a third, different book as illustrating a similarity between the two compared books.

Meant to be humorous I suppose

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Post by Okiekim » 25 Mar 2013, 14:17

+1000, Lespaulgeek! Great comparison!

I could also add the both Ender's Game and Potter shares the New Testament's themes of martyrdom, redemption, resurrection from the dead, corrupt authority figures, perseverance in the face of overwhelming odds, salvation, virgins, and Important Things Happening Inside Caves. :D

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Post by lady_charlie » 27 Mar 2013, 21:30

DATo wrote:
lady_charlie wrote:Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now

Fuenteovejuna and Murder on the Orient Express

maybe I will stick to what I do best - reading!
Hi lady_charlie,

Actually, there is a bit of a difference with regard to the first example you cite. There was never any attempt on the part of Francis Ford Coppola to dismiss the fact that Apocalypse Now was based on the Conrad novel. He even used the same name, 'Kurtz', to drive the point home that this was based on the same theme as Heart of Darkness. If asked, as Rowling was, what inspired this movie I can imagine Coppola saying, "What? Are you kidding? Isn't it obvious?" Now, can you imagine Coppola saying, "I haven't any idea where my inspiration came from." In that event, wouldn't YOU be saying ... "What? Are you kidding? Isn't it obvious?" to Coppola?

Oh !!! Please don't give up on movies!!! If you haven't seen it do yourself a favor and pick up the movie, The Red Violin. This is a film which was not based upon a book, but if it had been it would have been a blockbuster best seller in my opinion. I am on a crusade to make sure everyone on the planet sees this movie *LOL*
Well, I didn't mean I was going to give up on movies, I meant I was going to refrain from writing the Great American Novel.

The Red Violin, eh?
I will look for that.

Hey - got another one. West Side Story and Romeo and Juliet.

Oh, I get why Apocalypse Now didn't fit - because Coppola did it on purpose.

-- 27 Mar 2013, 21:34 --

Oh hey - Theseus and The Minotaur and The Hunger Games
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