A Clockwork Orange - Chapters 4-7 Discussion

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LoveHatesYou
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A Clockwork Orange - Chapters 4-7 Discussion

Post by LoveHatesYou »

Without his comrades, Alex reads an archetypal newspaper article about "Modern Youth" which blames youth's rowdiness on lack of parental and academic discipline. Alex has read another such article which condemned adults for creating such a violent world- he tends to agree more with that article. He turns on the radio and listens to some classical music, and remembers reading another article that argued that an understanding and appreciation of the arts would domesticate youth; ironically, Alex finds that classical music always vexes him up for hostility. What is Burgess trying to say by Alex being incited to violence with classical music?
Alex takes the bus to his favorite record store, where two young girls browse through the pop records. The clerk sells Alex the Beethoven's Ninth Symphony recording he has been waiting for, and Alex invites the two girls back to his place to listen to music. After treating them to lunch, he does some drugs, listens to some tunes, and has sex while listening to the Beethoven. At first the girls are drunk and do not mind, but when they sober up they call Alex a beast and leave in a huff. Alex, impartial to the girls? resentment and his date rape, goes to sleep.
Alex states his belief in Original Sin, the Biblical idea that evil is inherent in man and is not a product of the environment: "...badness is of the self...and that self is made by old Bog or God." His assertion jibes with the article condemning adults and pointing to Original Sin: "IT WAS THE DEVIL THAT WAS ABROAD and was like ferreting his way into like young innocent flesh." While Original Sin implies a certain lack of free will, since God has sown the seeds of sin and the individual has not chosen it, it has a far greater extent of freewill than in the assertion that environment has decided behavior.
Alex is continually adamant, even after arrest, that he does evil because "what I do I do because I like to do" - he is in full charge of his actions. He also claims that modern history is the "story of brave malenky selves fighting these big machines" of repressive society, furthering his and Burgess's argument that freewill at any cost is vital, even if not always positive. Alex says he would not interfere with the actions of those who do good, and he expects the same in return; the difference, of course, is that bad behavior harms others, while good behavior benefits others.
Dr. Branom's statement that Alex is learning to feel what any "'normal healthy human organism contemplating the actions of the forces of evil'" should feel is inaccurate. Alex never contemplates, but only reacts. He still has a reflex to violence; only instead of it automatically giving him gratification, it now causes anguish. There is no freewill in his conditioning- only conditioned response. As a student of psychology (well ex- student), I am offended by Alex?s treatment, as he is not asked to do any inflection- he does not think about any of his prior actions. Though he still has enough free will to try to punch the officer, he soon feels sick; one can imagine that after some more treatment, he will not even attempt to punch anymore. Killing his spirit does not teach him anything. He is becoming a clockwork orange whose feelings can be quantified, as the doctors' measurements suggest.
But the treatment goes beyond physical influence - it is starting to creep into Alex's mind. Alex says that "'A dream or nightmare is really only like a film inside your gulliver,'" and the connection brings us back to the socialist use of mass media as mind-control. Burgess's second greatest fear after the government's obvious restriction of free will through its covert restriction through the media.
The doctor?s in the treatment center continue showing violent films, complete with classical music in the background, thus quashing Alex?s love of classical music. Alex's free will is now completely gone; his body will no longer let him perform violent actions, even against himself. Worse yet, he now negatively associates classical music with violence. Although music has no ethical connotations, as Burgess demonstrates amply throughout Part One, it has deep aesthetic meaning for Alex. No longer, however, thanks to the sadistic efforts of Dr. Brodsky, who seems to relish the destruction of Alex's only "heavenly" love. Dr. B is a quandary- is supposed to be a doctor, but seems to enjoy inflicting pain just as much as Alex used to.
As the chaplain explains, Alex's choice to do good is not a choice at all, but a response to the pain his original immoral desires now cause. It is still a reflex and has turned him, as Alex himself says, into a clockwork orange, half-machine and half-man. Moreover, the chaplain denies that Alex's original choice to lose his freewill justifies the treatment; Alex did not know what he was getting into, and now he has no way out.
We are revealed more evidence that the State is just as immoral as Alex was, and possibly even more so. They enjoy the violence on display as if it were a show, and ogle the attractive woman "with dirty and like unholy desire." Whether they do so with the same violent mindset Alex once had is unclear, but they seem almost more like clockwork oranges than he is; the professor whose "neck [has] like all cables carrying like power from his gulliver to his plott" resembles Alex when he was strapped into the chair.
Does Chapter 7 provide hope for Christian redemption: is it sating that, over time, we can erase the effects of Original Sin by choosing goodness? Or does the augmentation and immoralization of the government taint the hint of hope? What are your thoughts on socialism? Is Alex actually making any decisions here? Do you agree with my analysis? Who, in your point of view, is more immoral- the State, or Alex? Why? What are your ideas on the religious themes that is surfacing- Original Sin, redemption, the chaplain, etc..?

Alright kids-I talked too much, but I had all weekend to do it, now it?s your turn- go!
"I am a slave to the wonders of the imagination and the cage of creativity." -E. Maggard
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jsavage
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Post by jsavage »

To add a few things that I read and thought were relevant... Alex shows ambivalent views towards school and learning (but is this typical of any teenager?). Also, it seems that Alex has adults who are concerned for his well being (his parents, or the correctional officer from his school). But are they really concerned? The adults in the book do not seem to take an active role in Alex's life - further perpetuating the idea that the Modern Youth are not to blame, but it's the lack of parental discipline, etc.. Why is Alex not disciplined? He seems to be keen on skipping school to go to the record store. I also see this as a struggle between individuality and conformity. As you said
"Alex is continually adamant, even after arrest, that he does evil because "what I do I do because I like to do" - he is in full charge of his actions."
He also says that "everything in this wicked world counts" meaning that he knows he'll suffer the consequences of his actions sooner or later. Also, we get a general feeling of disgust towards the "starry ones" who seem to be financially well off. He talkes about all the wasted rooms in the old woman's house that he robs. Is this an economic situation that's causing Alex and his droogs to be so lawless? It could explain the robbery but not the violence.
I also found Alex's obsession over being viewed by his droogs as the leader an interesting dynamic to his character. He once again feels he needs to set himself apart from everyone, including his droogs. But, he is also very quick to point fingers once he gets caught by the police. He even goes as far as blaming his friends for everything.
Ok, sorry if this doesn't relate to your questions...so to address this question
"Does Chapter 7 provide hope for Christian redemption: is it sating that, over time, we can erase the effects of Original Sin by choosing goodness? Or does the augmentation and immoralization of the government taint the hint of hope?"
While the treatment that Alex ultimately endures might make him not give in to his violent urges, it is as you said a conditioned reaction and not something that he chose. I'm sure most people (me included!) are firmly against this type of treatment as it is immoral in itself. You can't force someone to do anything. The successful way to 'redeem' Alex is to help him chose to do something good on his own and not to condition the violent behavior away. By eliminating any part of a persons free will, all of society is weakend. The world is a diverse and unique place b/c it is made up of an array of people w/ different ideals, thoughts, values, etc.. not because we are all the same. A quote better makes my point..
i love my country
by which i mean
i am indebted joyfully
to all the people throughout its history
who have fought the government to make right
where so many cunning sons and daughters
our foremothers and forefathers
came singing through slaughter
came through hell and high water
so that we could stand here
and behold breathlessly the sight
how a raging river of tears
is cutting a grand canyon of light
Ok, I'll stop for now, I think I'm going off on a tangent...
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Post by Scott »

jsavage wrote:I also found Alex's obsession over being viewed by his droogs as the leader an interesting dynamic to his character.
I agree. I found it slightly Machiavellian, which I admire, ignoring that Alex uses his Machiavellian instincts and the gained power for sadistic ends.
LoveHatesYou wrote:Alex says he would not interfere with the actions of those who do good, and he expects the same in return; the difference, of course, is that bad behavior harms others, while good behavior benefits others.
Alex's harmful actions are forced upon people against those people's wills. Where as, the beneficiaries of good will voluntarily accept the help.

When the state (or someone else) interferes to stop Alex, it is done not for Alex's sake, but rather for the sake of his would-be victims. It does take away Alex's freedom and perhaps even his free-will, but it defends Alex's would-be victims from Alex.
LoveHatesYou wrote:Does Chapter 7 provide hope for Christian redemption: is it sating that, over time, we can erase the effects of Original Sin by choosing goodness? Or does the augmentation and immoralization of the government taint the hint of hope? What are your thoughts on socialism? Is Alex actually making any decisions here? Do you agree with my analysis? Who, in your point of view, is more immoral- the State, or Alex? Why? What are your ideas on the religious themes that is surfacing- Original Sin, redemption, the chaplain, etc..?
I think the priest offers an explanation of Christian redemptions, but the treatment center and the doctors do not. This contrast manifests in the priest's disagreement with the philosophy of the treatment center.

I dislike socialism, and do not think that government can be trusted with power. Similarly, the government cannot be trusted with power such as what the doctors are doing. With the power to brainwash people, the government would probably use it in a corrupt manner. The government would want to take away the free-will from people, even good and innocent people, the same way governments currently take away freedom.

In effect, the treatment, which is mostly a form of brainwashing with the help of temporary medication, is just a mental prison. It doesn't make Alex good, and it doesn't rehabilitate him; it debilitates him, in essentially the same way prison cell or straight jacket does.

Alex isn't now a good person; he hasn't changed. The so-called "treatment" has just taken away his free-will, and left him nothing more than a clockwork orange.

Nonetheless, that doesn't mean it's a bad idea for the rest of us to use the so-called "treatment" on people such as Alex. Using the treatment to stop violent criminals like Alex might be good for the rest of us in the same way using a jail-cell to stop them is good for us.
"That virtue we appreciate is as much ours as another's. We see so much only as we possess." - Henry David Thoreau

"Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco." Virgil, The Aeneid
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Post by LoveHatesYou »

I am loving how people are thinking in depth and detail. Keep going with it. How do we feel about Alex's personal hell? Are we more worried about Alex or society? Is Alex a protagonist?
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Post by Scott »

LoveHatesYou wrote:I am loving how people are thinking in depth and detail. Keep going with it. How do we feel about Alex's personal hell? Are we more worried about Alex or society? Is Alex a protagonist?
That is a very good question. On one hand, Alex seems to be the 'bad guy', but on the other hand Alex seems to represent freedom and free-will. Are we more concerned about society's ability to eliminate crime or the free-will of individuals? I don't know.

Perhaps, a small part of Alex is the protagonist. The part that theoretically could freely choose to truly rehabilitate and become a good person. If so, then the treatment clinic seems to be an antagonist to that, because the shortcut that the treatment center offers Alex doesn't help him rehabilitate himself.

The problem is that Alex doesn't even seem to want to rehabilitate himself. He does want out of jail, but he doesn't care about the reality of the cure.

What do you think?
"That virtue we appreciate is as much ours as another's. We see so much only as we possess." - Henry David Thoreau

"Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco." Virgil, The Aeneid
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Post by Mikail Light »

I'll be reading that after I finish what I am reading. That maybe interesting.
The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.~ Socrates :techie-studyingbrown:
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