Insights To Make Your Writing Better

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Re: Insights To Make Your Writing Better

Post by kimcormack »

The first book in the series I wrote with a bit of a filter on. Book two and three I took that filter off and let my freak flag fly. I say, always write with your filter off. When you finish the book it's a scary thing because you've left yourself wide open, but you'll be much happier with what you've created. ;)
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Post by zeldas_lullaby »

kimcormack wrote:The first book in the series I wrote with a bit of a filter on. Book two and three I took that filter off and let my freak flag fly. I say, always write with your filter off. When you finish the book it's a scary thing because you've left yourself wide open, but you'll be much happier with what you've created. ;)
I've been doing that lately, and it's made my writing darker yet more reflective. :o

Good advice!
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Post by kimcormack »

:) It took me a few books to just let go. It's so freeing lol
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Post by moderntimes »

Many books on writing are passe these days. Stephen King's "On Writing" is still an excellent work but it preaches too much. The adverb thing is just one "rule" that's bogus. Any, repeat, any overuse of certain turns of phrase can be boring and poor writing.

Too many people also put their faith in Strunk & White but it's about a century old, despite revisions. Much of the textbook instruction for writing are also based on requirements for academic papers and "high literature" novels, elegant and reserved and tedious. Modern fiction, especially genre fiction (SF, fantasy, mystery, etc) is a lot more lively and full of broken rules of grammar.

26, I can only say this about conventional publishing vs self publishing: I consider the direction of the money flow. If it goes out of my wallet, it's bad. If in comes in, it's good. I have never paid a cent to any publisher or editor or other venue for what I've written. I also would not pay someone to go to work for them as an engineering analyst (my former "day" job -- offshore oil & gas consultancy for drilling and exploration firms, spec writing and revision, safety & environmental a specialty) but instead they paid me. A writer should expect the same thing -- getting paid for the work.

Exactly the same for my writing. I do write a few religious articles which I contribute. And although my "pay" for writing mystery book reviews is getting free copies of the books, that's typical for most reviewers. And aside from this, I've been paid fairly (albeit not a lot) for all my newspaper articles, sports reports, stringing for the AP, movie and book reviews for regular dailies (the KC Star and El Paso Times and other venues), and my short stories, articles in national and local magazines and newsletters, and of course my mystery novels. The money flow is into my bank account, not out.

And another thing about conventional publishing. Yes, it's damn hard to get published, that's for certain. But the rewards are superb. I've got a few boxes full of clippings from newspapers and magazines, all with my byline. And going into a bookstore and seeing my novels on the shelf? Great delight. I could never have that with self publishing.

So I'll kick against the goad and keep working toward getting my stories, articles, and novels published by people who pay me, not the other way around. It's a lot harder, and sure, I could shell out a few hundred bucks to put my books online and even have a few vanity copies run off in trade paperback format. But the operative word there is "vanity" which is all it would be for me.

As for improving writing, there are no hard and fast rules, that you're correct on, 26. Writers can make up their own rules as they go along. It's just that the paying customers (the readers) have to accept this and enjoy what you've written regardless of the adverbs or whatever other useless rule you've broken. And I can tell anyone here -- publishers do NOT care if you tweak the rules, just so that you create a marketable product, a book that will sell. They could give a damn otherwise.

I have been submitting my latest novel to a set of publishers who are on the MWA (Mystery Writers of America -- I'm a full member, having had at least 1 novel professionally, not self published) and I accidentally sent my query to a vanity house, one with a terrible reputation -- they had the same name as the legit publisher for obvious reasons. They rejected my first 3 chapters as terrible and full of errors. And they recommended a professional editing firm, which of course gives them kickbacks -- for all I know they're in the same office -- which is one scam that's perpetrated on unsuspecting author newbies. Remember folks, NEVER PAY ONE CENT to get your book evaluated or edited or proofread or anything else. That's a scam. If a real publisher accepts your book, they will work with you to edit your book so it's better (and yes they did this for me) but never charge a penny.

Anyway, this guy sent me back a huge marked up version of my first chapter, decrying all the typos. And of course I wrote that chapter in brevity and with immediacy and strong phrases, and naturally, incomplete sentences technically. I also deliberately used bleak and drab phrasing in paragraph 1 so that it would contrast more with para 2. And so on. I'll post the chapter here but it's very graphic in that it described a brutal murder scene. A couple of phrases therefore edited out, here it is however (feedback appreciated):

An efficiency apartment neat and spotless, maintained by a young woman who took student life seriously, pride in modest surroundings. Inexpensive bookshelves lining the walls, filled to capacity with paperbacks and collegiate texts. Stacks of notebooks, pristine desk and office-style cubicle, laptop and printer, family photos. Nearby bed made up, sheets tucked. Adjoined kitchenette gleaming, dining counter and two bar stools the same. Bathroom next, also clean, bright.

Except that the apartment was now an abattoir, every surface strewn with her body parts. A vile and perverted display, ..... Other things. ..... A kidney. ....

Diorama in blood, meant for us to absorb, for us all to bear witness.

I stood there a moment, stunned, unthinking. Then the stench and blasphemy and evil overtook me and I turned quickly, out the apartment door, choking, spitting up anything in my stomach onto the little lawn. Acidic coffee was all I offered but the spasms persisted.

Hunched over and dizzy, I eventually regained my balance, deep breathing until I was fairly certain I wouldn’t simply run down the street screaming, continue running and screaming until I was spent, spent of energy and spent of the sordid life in which I found myself this day.

Instead, I steeled my resolve and walked back inside where Homicide Captain Joe Duggan and Detective David Meierhoff were patiently waiting.


That's how I write and if I broke some old S&W rules, so be it. Naturally I told this guy to take a flying leap. And you're right, 26, it's a rough tough world out there in professional publishing but for me, the rewards are worth the effort. If my writing is accepted and I'm paid for it, that's a measure of the quality of what I do. If I instead pay to have a vanity publication online or in paperback, there's no yardstick for which to measure the relative value of my book.
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Post by 26mada26daddy »

Hooray for you Moderntimes. You have the best of all Literary Worlds, obviously! Still, it does not mean that my writing is inferior to yours, does it? My point had been made way back from my very first post and I stand by what I posted as it is a genuine account of my 'Literal Life Experience'. Yes, I understand the difference about working with Traditional Publishers that give you a retainer up front. That's fine too but I've the freedom to be as creative as I choose to be and that's the kind of freedom to which I had alluded.

As a Grammar School student, I know I benefit from my grasp of Languages, especially English Grammar. I hear you say, that you are writing to "earn money" but I do not need anything more than fulfilling my 'purpose' and mission' on this planet. Even though I have to pay for certain Marketing that I have chosen to connect with these 'Modern Times'. I refuse to live in those moments that are of no more use than leading me towards becoming a romantic who dwells only in those memories.

I live in this moment and for each moment but remain a "Lifelong Learner". In this way, I have no expectations about limitations. My potential, abilities and capabilities are ongoing. I remember what you said in the penultimate post about "one not getting published unless one have already been published previously" (reported speech). I am leaving my audience to determine whether they like (1) my presentation and style of writing (2) my creativity (3) the concepts, content and intrigue involved or (4) the debates raised by the 'real-to-life 'Issues', 'Themes' and 'Topics'. What you have to understand 'Moderntimes' is that these are "Modern Times", are they not? Individuals have choices and while you might not see my choice of preference, it doesn't make my book unmarketable or undesirable. Sometimes, one has to 'pay to learn' so thanks for your comments all the same. One thing I'm learning is that all intentions are pure, apparently!
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Post by moderntimes »

Great commmentary, 26, and eloquent. Few people would know the meaning and use "penultimate" correctly!

I actually don't write "to make money" but I do write for a professional venue. And yes it pays but not exactly retirement dough, for certain. I doubt I've made $10k total for all my writing ever -- most I got paid for a magazine article was $1000 but that was pretty unusual. My objective is not to make money but to be published conventionally, books on shelves down at the local mystery bookstore, sitting down and doing a book signing for the few fans I've got. The money is incidental. But seeing my books on a store shelf? Doing a book signing where store clients ask me about my writing, buy the book and let me sign it? Awesome and totally happy, pleased as punch that someone would shell out 20 bucks for my book and ask me to sign it. I don't care if it was 3 or 4 people, either. That made my day. And I also had this little secret desire to grab people in the bookstore at random, point to my novel "Blood Storm" and say "I wrote this!" heh heh heh....

My recommendation to you, seeing your command of the language, is that you are absolutely the sort of writer whom a publisher or agent might take a shine to. You might consider taking time to pursue a more conventional route, because I sincerely doubt that your writing would be anything so unusual or rule-breaking as to warrant rejection. You obviously have a sharp mind and can control your commentary and statements, can write coherently with ease. You may have already pursued conventional publishing and have had your work rejected. Fine. I just think that you might reconsider and seek a "real" publisher -- there are plenty out there who accept unagented writers -- and see whether your writing is marketable. I'd tend to think "yes".

Per Rex, that first para was, as I said, intentionally flat and somewhat featureless, bleak, so as to contrast with the 2nd para where all the gore is seen. But in my excerpt, para 2 had to be edited for content. Sorry.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
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Post by Morgan Jones »

Writing like you speak is a bit tricky when English is not your first language. But, I agree with the rest!
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Post by kmkline120 »

KillerJoe wrote: 21 Apr 2015, 08:05 All good points. Lists are like most things in life. You have to take what's useful to you, and jettison the rest. I do find that they often generate good conversations though, like this one.

Quick editor story. I was told by one editor that he didn't want to publish a short story I had written because it had a surprise ending. All professional short stories, said he, have an ending that is foretold. It must end a certain way based on what has come before in the tale. Another editor, the editor who published the same story, commented that one of the things he particularly liked about it was the surprise ending. To each his own.

Certainly agree with you that the voice of any character must be true to the character. My point was aimed more at getting people to trust their own instincts...but, as you rightly point out...be willing to take good advice when it's presented. Thanks for your input.
This is a really good point that I am trying to remember as I begin experimenting with writing. Editors are just people, like us, and they have their own opinions. Just because one editor does not like an aspect of a story does not make him or her correct. It could just be their opinion. On the other hand, a different editor/person might love that same aspect. So, I am trying to remember to write without worrying about what the judgments will be because that can really hinder the writing process. Thank you!
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

"Write like you speak", means something like use my talking language for writing as well? If I got it correctly, I don't think that is always appropriate
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Post by clint_csperry-org »

I love the points about making what you write sound true and write like you speak... Well that last one is a bit of an issue at times, I rarely use punctuation when I speak. That creates issues when things go on the page. :D
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