Do you keep tweaking your book after it's "finished"?

[moderntimes]

I "finished" my 3rd novel last April or so. Then I knowingly put the book through a total review and proofread, several times, not only correcting errors but making tweaks here and there. I finally thought I was done last October.

But about once a week or so, I'll remember a certain sequence or conversation or part of a chapter and re-read it, and then find myself making yet another tweak. Usually it's just one word, sometimes a sentence or two -- nothing big but what I still regard as a slight improvement on the original.

Do you find yourself with this problem -- keeping on keeping on keeping on making small changes to your novel or short stories or whatever?

And the problem is, after I DO make the change, I see that it was indeed an improvement and that only stimulates me to re-read the whole book again and keep tweaking. I just did this last night and today.

Eeek!

[zeldas_lullaby]

I tweak my writing a lot as I'm working on a particular volume. I write new scenes and look over past scenes in an overlapping manner. It's like a process of constantly reworking everything, but once I get it done, barring the discovery of an unfortunate typo or whatever, it's done.

Like my book, Forever Twelve: I uploaded some changes when two typos were brought to my attention, but at this point, I'm definitely not looking back with regard to the written content. It's just... done. Now I'm doing all that tweaking and revisions for the sequel.

[Amheiser]

I tweak and correct until I can't tweak and correct anymore. I keep going through what I've written again and again until I can finally go through it without changing anything. I don't consider it done until I don't make any more changes. Sometimes it's very frustrating because I just think that I'm going to make it all the way through this time, but then I find something else, and it makes it better, so I have to keep tweaking. Eventually it finally does happen that I make it all the way through without any changes, and I know that time will come if I just keep at it, so I do keep at it until it happens.

[Cee-Jay Aurinko]

Haven't finished a novel yet. At the moment, I'm only 9 500 words into my first novel. I make it a point not to reread, because sometimes it does help, revealing some new and more interesting idea I can use to glitter my work up a little, but new ideas can be dangerous. For instance, I start the novel with one clear direction in mind, then somewhere along the way I lose the story, the song of the story. Then I reread. And get an idea. Sometimes it does what I want it to; other times it completely ruins and reshapes and everything I've created so far. Like this novel I'm working on now. I have a clear five book science fiction series in mind. My book is only like 5% done at this stage, and already rereading has presented the idea of writing a standalone YA with a science fiction element of only 2%. But I'm going with the 5 book series idea anyway. 3 months for the draft. 3 months for tweaking, research, and polishing . After that, no tweaking. No tweaking no tweaking no tweaking.

[moderntimes]

Amheiser, my ceaseless tinkering is similar to what you've done. Of course there's a point at which the book is actually "finished" when you submit it to the publisher. That's where my book is now, at the publisher.

But if it's purchased (decision pending, wish me luck) the final final final version which I now will SIT ON without any further changes will be uploaded to them -- fortunately there are only about a half dozen teeny changes, a word here or there -- and then the whole editing and revision process starts over once more.

As you folks may know, when your book is accepted for publication (I've had my first 2 novels purchased and professionally published) then the book goes thru several edits -- first a mechanical edit and proofread for typos and other errors, then a vetting for legal problems and also a look into conflicts in text (for example, the bad guy is first dark eyed and later he has blue eyes, things like that -- continuity errors). Then at least two senior editors will review for content and style. You the writer go back and forth for what seems like an eternity making tweaks and revisions (the editors' suggestions are usually right) and then finally the book is ready.

I'm happy to say that neither of my books had any mechanical errors when finally published. In the final draft, one last chance to fix problems, I came across a typo. A character named Jacobs, where I said something like "lights were on at Jacob's condo" when the apostrophe was misplaced -- and nobody caught it -- and I managed to get it corrected to "lights were on at Jacobs' condo".

Leon, you've got a huge task ahead of you, emotionally committing yourself to FIVE novels when you're only a few thousand words into the first book. Your sense of concentration and intensity must be far more than mine -- while writing a novel (and understand, I've now written 3 and I'm working on the 4th) I only focus on the task at hand, one book at a time, with NO forward thought to the next book, except that it be generally a sequel (my books are a series of modern American private detective novels). You've set yourself out to write an epic which few writers can manage. My recommendation is to take the 2nd route that you're talking about -- a SINGLE book that's standalone. Just realize that even if you intend the book be standalone and it is, you can then write a 2nd book within the fictional framework of that first one, and then a 3rd. Since you're writing SF I'd recommend the Larry Niven "Ringworld" series for genuine, brilliant SF. (Just don't confuse SF with fantasy.) Anyway, in the Ringworld series, each book is terrific and stands alone, but they also make up a coherent series.

I also think you're not giving yourself enough time. A novel usually takes about 8-9 months to write unless you're amazingly prolific. And that doesn't include revision and tweaking.

But good luck. Just don't get bogged down trying to write the next LOTR (which of course is fantasy and not SF) and end up never finishing that first book -- my advice is to work on ONE novel and try to get it perfect, then set out for #2.

[sharlene 27]

Definitely. I think I kept tweaking my first novel, Initiated to Kill about 5 times. My second novel is receiving its fifth edit as well.

[Jolyon Trevelyan]

No i don`t

I only write for myself and don`t let people read my stories. Apart from one book i wrote 12-13 years agp. That is the only book i have let people read. It is also the only book i have written that think is any good.

[moderntimes]

You only write for yourself? I find that surprising, since this section is about authors and their writing. Why don't you want to sell your writing or otherwise share it with others? Just curious.

Re. the continuing revision of our books, yeah, I'm always tweaking, finding a word here or there to change. I have to however "slap hands" on myself lately, as I'm busy working on my 4th mystery novel and 3 short horror stories, and my writing time is better spent revising and adding to them. And my newest novel, #3, is now in an agent's hands so any further changes by me on that text have to stop for now -- we can't have the agent or her assistants chasing a moving target, can we?

[Jolyon Trevelyan]

Because i don`t think its good enough .

[moderntimes]

But how do you know it's not good enough? What measuring do you perform? If you are the only judge, then the court is a closed one. If others read your fiction, then at least you can tell if you need improvement. If you do share your writing, then be sure to ask those who read it for specifics -- not just "Did you like it?" but "Did you find the characters realistic?" or "Did you find the plot confusing?" Things like that.

Writing only for yourself is akin to, well, "self-pleasuring" -- it's fun but it's a lot better if you have a partner.

[april-ballard]

Great analogy Moderntimes! Sound advise, I totally agree. Have a friend who likes to read take a look at your manuscript. I have a friend who does this for me, she often catches things I would otherwise be oblivious to.

[moderntimes]

I'm not trying to be rude to our poster who doesn't want to share, but that's the analogy that I have whenever someone says "I only write for myself" and doesn't let anyone else read it.

Let's face it -- this section is labeled Writing Discussion and it's meant for authors. Writers do this (write) to say something and if they don't let it out to be read or seen, it's like some 13yr old schoolgirl's "secret" diary. And worth about that much, too.

The only way we as writers can improve is to share what we've done and maybe try to sell it or otherwise get it published. I don't write "just for the money" but creating a short story or novel or article that is professionally published (and purchased) is likely the goal of most fledgling writers.

[zeldas_lullaby]

Modern Times, how do you know that Jolyon himself isn't a teenager still? Regardless, people grow at different levels, and maybe what he needs now is the confidence to share his work, because he hasn't reached that point yet.

And FYI, I kept seven or eight diaries as a youth, and that's how I developed my abilities of narration, dialogue, etc. I took my daily encounters and turned them into stories by writing out the dialogue, etc.

[april-ballard]

I don't think you were rude Moderntimes, these questions should be considered by any person desiring to be published.

The diaries are a good idea, I can see how they would help one refine their writing style. I started similarly, keeping a dream log. Sometimes my dreams are so vivid they are hard to separate from reality, and when upon waking I can't get them out of my mind. This can be troubling depending on the content! lol I found that by writing them down, including as much detail as I can, these dreams are easier to put on the back burner so to speak.

[zeldas_lullaby]

Ooh! You and I need to talk. I have vivid dreams too. If I weren't starving right now and in need of lunch, I'd PM you what I dreamt last night...