So how many hopeful authors are out there?

[ameliadefield]

Also to answer the question asked in the first post, I thought preferred to write hard science fiction, but found that I like a fusion of fantasy, mythology, and science fiction.

[moderntimes]

Ah, a sysadmin. Regretfully, the word "revisioning" is still jargon, or "bizspeak" for the humor in it. And working with technology and other levels of high commerce, I can relate, as I spent years trying to dig out such terminology and replace it with standard English, to mixed results.

I've got no real problem with self publishing but it can be a dead end if authors work themselves into a conceptual hard spot by believing their work "unpublishable" or more likely "unsalable" and resort to self publishing out of frustration, and then settle on that. Better to keep slogging away and improving the skill set until the material is commercially marketable.

I mean, hey, engineers don't design bridges or highrises and put them on the internet, asking people to "buy" the design. Carpenters or bricklayers don't walk up and down the street and find a place to construct a new wall or shed and do so by paying for the materials out of their own pocket. No. These professionals are PAID for their work. Why should writers be any different?

Now, I'm not unrealistic on this -- I know very well that making a real "living" by writing is almost impossible. But I draw the line at paying to publish something I wrote. That's the wrong direction of money flow. Even if the publisher doesn't pay advances but pays only royalties, writers can find these outlets for their work, and at least a professional will edit and review and proofread the book and the author will not pay a cent for this.

I've seen too many people here and elsewhere say "I self published" -- meaning "I paid someone to publish my book" and tell themselves that they're not good enough to go beyond this. That's the problem I see with vanity publishing.

-- 23 Oct 2014, 11:13 --

Also to answer the question asked in the first post, I thought preferred to write hard science fiction, but found that I like a fusion of fantasy, mythology, and science fiction.

So long as the fantasy doesn't get too rampant, I'm okay with that. Problem with fantasy -- and with some fantasy authors -- is that they have the feeling that "anything goes" and continue to add more and more fantastic elements into the story until it jumps the tracks.

Fantasy authors who are best are those who keep the fantasy at close reigns and don't go too far afield, and hold the story line to a more realistic boundary.

One of my most beloved SF novels ever is "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelazny. This novel has borderlines upon fantasy with some mythology, but he maintains control of the subject.

[rssllue]

I am a writer who has just gotten back into writing recently having not written for a few years previous. I have written in many genres before and look to do so again as I get back into the swing of things so to speak.

[ameliadefield]

Moderntimes, okay, I totally see where you are coming from. I just like the control self publishing provides over the final product. If someone felr like their work wasn't good enough to traditionally publish, they propobly need to keep revising or work on a different book. Poorly written books clog vanity publisher and their outlets such as Amazon. As a reader, that is no fun.

As for my novel, the fantasy elements are explained in a more scientific way and there is no form of magic. The presense of mythology is also explain in a science fiction sort of way.

[moderntimes]

When both my novels were published (and purchased), the publisher didn't do anything to exert control from me regarding my novels. The book went through 2 edits (text edit and line edit) plus 2 "content" edits. During these, of course typos and such were found and corrected. And there were some comments regarding style, such as "maybe you could tell us more about this character" or "maybe you need to provide more details about this action sequence).

But at no time did anyone criticize or attempt to change the general content of my novels. I had some scenes of vivid crime violence and a few very explicit sex scenes, but not one word was altered.

The problem with "self control" is that often the person exerting the control cannot spell or write clearly. I've seen tons of annoying typos in this sort of publication. I mean, if all I wanted to do was just present my book to the public, hey, I could post a link to the PDF version on Facebook or something. At least that wouldn't cost me anything.

Sorry, but I simply will not pay someone to print my stuff. If it's done for charity or whatever, sure. I've written articles for non-profit orgs and naturally I wasn't paid. But neither did I pay for it.

Your novel looks interesting. My general knowledge of that particular genre might be similar to F. Paul Wilson's "Repairman Jack" series, also termed "urban fantasy". In other words, no knights or lords or swords (ha ha).

[ameliadefield]

That is good to hear that you found a good publisher. I agree that sometimes self publishers need to get an editor. I think that if you do it right, it can be a good thing, just like if you find the right publisher for you, it can be a good thing. I do not intend in any way to be put down any of the work or publishers of anyone's works here in the forums, I intend to share my perspective on the whole "aspiring" author versus published author topic.

I looked up the book you mentioned. I think you are right, my novel shares a few traits with it. I suppose you could call it urban fantasy set on another world.

[Inkuisitive]

I have dabbled in fantasy, post-apocalyptic fiction, and period pieces now and again, and since this thread has attracted considerable attention to your use of the word "aspiring," which I entirely understand, let me describe myself this way: Though I have not yet been published, I consider myself to already be a writer--just not as far along the path as many others. My primary reasoning for thinking this way is that I have come to view writing as something one DOES, not something one simply IS in some strange and magical way. And so if you write, I think you are a writer; if you do not write, you are not a writer. (Of course there are some who write without having any business doing so, and others have the talent to write but lack the discipline, but that is beside the point.)

I don't know if any of you have seen Throw Momma from the Train (it's a family classic here), but as much as I enjoy the movie for its quirky humor, it drives me absolutely BONKERS the way they play around with the writing process. (I am not really trying to criticize the film since it's clearly not meant to be taken seriously.) In the opening scene, Billy Crystal's character is sitting at his type-writer, agonizing over what predicate adjective to add to the words, "The night was..." Imagine how far any of us would get if we told ourselves we could not continue until we had found the "perfect" word--as if one exists!

I think Moderntimes said it well:

Actually writing is what matters.

Thank you for this reminder. And thanks for sharing a bit of your novel. When are you planning to post the rest of it?

[moderntimes]

Ink, your perspective is the correct one. Even though you've yet to be published, you regard yourself as a "writer" and not any of the "hopeful" or "wannabe" modifiers.

Such an attitude is essential. Else, the "hopeful" writer is mired in indecision and insecurity. It DOES require a bit of gumption to push your new book or short stories or whatever out there, to agents or publishers and so on. Those who stay back and think that somehow the world will come to them are simply fooling themselves. It's absolutely necessary to lose that indecision and "market yourself" to some degree.

And amelia, if I seem to "put down" a certain category of publishers, I'm saying this for the good of many new writers -- there are predatory vanity publishers out there who milk new writers, the unsure ones especially, for money. They'll say "your book is promising but it needs a professional edit" then recommend a couple of editing services. WRONG! Because those editors are kicking back to the publisher from money the unsuspecting writers pays. Sometimes a "second edit" is required. And so on. Then, finally the book is "ready" for print and then the poor victimized author is belabored with all sorts of fancy publishing options, and each of them costs more, and each of them is a scam.

The website "Preditors and Editors" is well known for exposing these con jobs.

Now, there are some very legit self-publishing companies out there. Yes, they're still "vanity" presses in that they charge the writer for publishing, but their end product is of decent quality and if the writer chooses for a professional proofread and edit, it will be done quite nicely, for a moderate fee. Aspiring authors who are willing to pay money to see their books in print can expect to spend about $1,000 for an average novel. As long as the author knows this is a paid-for service and goes into the deal eyes open, I'm fine with that.

However, regardless of how professionally the book is created, if the author's writing is below standards, it still gets published. Maybe it's now been mechanically corrected and is free from gross English errors and typos, but the content might still be sub-par. And because of this, it's very difficult for a self-published book to be accepted "out there" and gain any sort of recognition. It happens but it's rare and becoming even more rare in this age of e-books.

And, yeah, e-publishing your own book is low cost, but it's still an exercise in vanity. If you just want to send your book out to people, just email them the PDF and ask them to send you $10 in return. I'm being facetious but my point is this: self publishing, regardless of how economical or how easy (for e-books especially) is still vanity publishing. And it skips over the principal boundary that I regard as essential to any writer: peer acceptance. That is, a professional publisher has seen your book and decides to invest a sum of real money getting that book into print and into e-book form. This includes a true, professional proofread and edit. And you pay ZERO for this.

This is what I regard as a mandatory step in the process of becoming a "real" writer -- now some of these small and mostly e-book firms may not offer an advance, and only give you royalties on sales, but the essential difference between these small and low-budget houses vs the vanity houses is the direction of money flow.

I don't claim to be any sort of a bigshot writer. My 2 mystery novels were purchased and professionally published, yes, but I didn't make a lot of money on the sales -- the fact that the firm didn't provide any real promotion for the books nor did they have a return policy with bookstores (this is a stroke of death for a new writer) meant that I wasn't going to make much money, and I didn't. But I also didn't shell out one red cent.

And I'm no top writer, yet I found a legitimate small firm that published my novels and didn't charge me.

My point being, anyone can do it. If your writing is good enough, you WILL find a publisher (or agent). And if people self-publish instead, they are giving up on that chance. If editors or agents aren't interested in your book, maybe you (and I'm using the "group you" here -- not you personally) -- maybe you need to rewrite and rewrite and revise and get friends who are literate and will tell you the truth about your book to read and give feedback.

Sometimes I might sound harsh but I worked in the newswriting business for some years and, folks, it's a cold and sometimes brutal world in the publishing field. If I may "sound off" on a particular new writer, I'm only meaning to hopefully nudge that writer toward a better product. And if I rant on a certain type of publisher (predatory vanity houses) I'm doing so as a warning to newcomers.

[Anacoana]

My novella that I'm trying to get published is sci-fi, and I simply /adore/ world building, though since I write virtually anything world building doesn't always factor in. Researching cultures or history is always fascinating, and seeing as diversity is needed in literature I make sure to include characters from different cultures, of different ethnicity, religions, and sexuality. I also really enjoy shedding light on things that need to be talked about. For example one of my newest projects is about a male abuse survivor realizing he's being abused and trying to leave his wife, and you never see males who have been abused in books or movies. The material was hard, but it was incredibly satisfying and helpful to interview some men and teenage boys who have unfortunately been abused. I also really enjoy adding psychology and the unexpected to my stories, making it seem like everything's okay until it's too late.

[moderntimes]

Ana, sounds like you've got a pretty good theme and plan. I might caution to not necessarily become too deeply engaged in trying to teach a lesson because this may often become so mired in an admirable goal that you fail to tell a good story. And for all fiction, regardless of whether you're trying to make a point, the primary objective is to entertain the reader.

For example, I have a pal who's pretty well dedicated to American conservative goals and in his new novel (he asked me to help review it), he got onto a soapbox and couldn't get off. So the story got stuck until the sermon was concluded. Regardless of whether his beliefs were conservative or liberal, he became too fixated on making his political point and forgot that he should be telling a good story first.

I therefore recommended that he edit the "sermon" portion and lighten up. This is despite the fact that I agreed with his tenets. But what he was doing would be excellent in a politically themed nonfiction book, but the kiss of doom for fiction.

Your goals and your intent may be admirable but you need to be careful not to get stuck upon a stump speech pattern as did my friend. Believe me, it's very possible to make a point or teach a moral within the framework of fiction without any sermonizing.

Naturally I'm saying this without having read one single word of your novella. For all I know, you may be cognizant of this already and have taken care to not get stuck.