The Luminaries Eleanor Catton

[JMD-55]

Is anyone else reading "The Luminaries" by Eleanor Catton? I got it for Christmas and I am really enjoying the beautiful style and subject which reminds me of those old Victorian mystery thrillers. It is set in New Zealand at the time of the gold rush and the plot is like a tangled ball of wool in which the threads are being slowly teased out. However, at the heart of the tangle is a mystery that is not temporal, I think.

[Fran]

One of my Christmas purchases too, following a great recommendation from Gannon here, but kinda backed up reading wise so haven't got to it just yet.

[suzy1124]

sounds good! another one to check out...

[marty1314]

...the plot is like a tangled ball of wool in which the threads are being slowly teased out...

Just finished Ms. Catton's wonderful novel. JMD's "ball of wool" metaphor is perfect. It's one of those novels you really want to discuss with other's. I would like to post some questions about certain "loose ends" but will wait so see if there's any interest in a "spoilers" section.

[AnaF]

I'm really curious about this book and the reviews I've been reading are quite positive

[S dot Lennon]

I've seen a lot of positive reviews for this series as well. I've been debating on whether or not it's my style. I think I am going to add to my list and see if I can get to it!

[netrate]

I have a few questions that I cannot seem to find the answer to regarding the book. There will be spoilers for sure, so please don't read this if you haven't read the book.

SPOILERS : highlight to see, I made them in a white colored font

1) Explain the significance of Moody seeing Emery in the ship bleeding and bleeding.
2) How did Carver meet his end and why?
3) Was the Seance real? There was one line that said Ah Sook told Lydia to say those things, but the rest of the observations in reading made it seem like it was real.
4) Where did Emery Staines go all that time?
5) Was Emery really behind the curtain in the real life? It seems like Anna shot herself, not the curtain. Moody's line about his story being "from the script" makes it seems otherwise.
6) Were the letters to Lauderbach from Crosbie Wells? They seem so different from the way he acted and spoke during the latter part of the book.
7) Why was George Sheppard so intent on protecting a felon like Carver?
Was there really gold buried in Maori land like Staines said?

Thank you in advance, there are more I am sure that will come to me as I think. I found it to be a frustrating book, a nice read, but frustrating. Now the frustrating also comes from the fact that there don't seem to be any nice endings and no good/bad guys, just people and a lot of injustice.

-- 19 Aug 2014, 19:18 --

I guess no one has read it.

[maverickf1]

[quote="netrate"]I have a few questions that I cannot seem to find the answer to regarding the book. There will be spoilers for sure, so please don't read this if you haven't read the book.

SPOILERS : highlight to see, I made them in a white colored font

1) Explain the significance of Moody seeing Emery in the ship bleeding and bleeding.
2) How did Carver meet his end and why?
3) Was the Seance real? There was one line that said Ah Sook told Lydia to say those things, but the rest of the observations in reading made it seem like it was real.
4) Where did Emery Staines go all that time?
5) Was Emery really behind the curtain in the real life? It seems like Anna shot herself, not the curtain. Moody's line about his story being "from the script" makes it seems otherwise.
6) Were the letters to Lauderbach from Crosbie Wells? They seem so different from the way he acted and spoke during the latter part of the book.
7) Why was George Sheppard so intent on protecting a felon like Carver?
Was there really gold buried in Maori land like Staines said?

Hi, Ive just finished reading it and am also having difficulties with some of the same questions. I love this sort of critical thinking, but every answered question poses a new one!

1) There is a very long answer to this question but I will do my best to be concise. Anna and Emery are Astral twins, as pointed out by Lydia. This means they are linked in a way that is supernatural, and is shown in numerous places. Anna takes the laudanum overdose (attempted suicide), which effects Emery, leading him to fall into the shipping container, unconscious (in the last chapter Anna and Emery both stumble and fall at the same time). Unnoticed he is nailed in and taken on board the Godspeed. Later Anna shoots herself, but the bullet is transferred to Emery (despite shooting herself in the collarbone there is not wound and the bullet disappears, yet Emery is seen by Moody spurting blood in a “ghostly” manner from the collarbone (so the significance is to reinforce the idea that they are spiritually entwined). They story that he was behind the curtain was a fabrication they tell they court so as they are not convicted. The ship wrecks and Emery washes ashore and lives in a confused, wild state, but is sustained by Anna who becomes thin and weak despite eating normally because she was sustaining him. Emery also takes her opium habit from her (he becomes addicted at the time that she quits – she states that she took a lot of opium yet felt no effects of it when Pritchard is interrogating her in her hotel room - this is because the effects have been transferred to Emery) and the way that she is able to sign his name even though she is illiterate. I believe that there are many more subtleties throughout the book that I probably missed out on.

2) This is left up to the reader to decide, but my opinion is that it was Tauwhare. He sees that the lock on the carriage is not secure, so he is able to get in and beat Carver to death with the green Maori baton that he is seen pretending to beat Carver with at a different time. He kills Carver as he believes that Carver killed Crosbie, and Tauwhare had given Carver Crosbies whereabouts.

3) It seems as though the seance is faked, but again left to the reader. My opinion is that Lydia meant to fake it (she ties the lamp to her wrist, making it seem as though it fell of its own accord) but that it ended up being real. Ah Sook states that he had said those words to her, but it was one time, years ago, and she repeated them in perfect Chinese. She is also shaken and refunds everyones money as she was unable to contact Staines (as I believe she had set out to pretend to do). It does not seem in Lydia's character to refund money or set out to not make a profit, strengthening my belief that it was real.

4) Sort of mentioned this is 1), but after the ship was wrecked it seems he lived in the wild for a time, being sustained by Anna.

5) Again answered above, the story that he was behind the curtain was made up.

6) Thats a good point, I was also surprised when we met Crosbie for the first time at how different he was from how I pictured him from his letters. I do think they were from him though, I cant think who else they would have been from. The only other option is Carver, but the time frame of the letters seems to rule him out.

7) Im not 100% sure what you mean by this. I got the impression that he didnt care about Carver, but used him as an excuse to hunt down and kill Sook, a revenge act for Sook killing Shepards brother (even though we know that it was actually Margaret).

Staines buried his gold near Crosbies house, which I believe was on Maori land. He buried it there because he know that no-one was allowed to dig for gold on Maori land, therefore it was unlikely that anyone would dig it up by accident.

Hope this helped, and that you can shed some light on a few of my questions.
1) How did Crosbie die. It seems that Carver spiked his drink with Laudanum, but there are 2 things wrong with this. 1. How would Carver get close enough to Crosbie (who knew Carver wanted him dead), and 2. the post mortem suggested that there was only a little laudanum in Crosbie's system.

2) What happened between Carver and Anna with regards to the miscarriage. We know he slapped her, then there was a gunshot that startled his horse, but how was the child lost? I was thinking that the horse was startled and kicked her, causing a miscarriage?

3) Where did the gunshot come from? I think there are a few possibilities. One is that it was Shepard killing Sook. Another is that it was again Shepard for some other reason. At the end we see him sitting with a rifle on his lap. That doesnt seem to have any significance to any of the storylines involved at the end of the novel... A third is that it was Harold Nilssen. He is seen coming out of Tiergreen's hardware (where Sook got his weapon) with a paper sack under his arm - “Staines forgot both his wallet and his hat at the stables, and as he rode out, almost charged down H. Nilssen as he exited Tiegreen's with a paper sack beneath his arm” Surely it is implied that this is a gun. But who would he be wanting to shoot? I thought maybe himself for his large part in Lauderbacks public humiliation. Suicide does not seem to fit with Nilssen's character though...

[Fran]

Without doubt this is a unique and original work and one I enjoyed reading immensely.
Let me say at the outset that my knowledge of astrology is limited and really does not go much beyond knowing the 12 zodiac signs and a vague knowledge of the traits associated with some of those signs. I did get Anna and Staines as The Luminaries of the title and the concept of them as some sort of astral twins in the grip of the waxing and waning of the Moon and Sun. This is exemplified in the way the physical health of each waxes and wanes in tandem - mirroring the way the strength of the Moon wanes in direct proportion to the strength of the Sun. The twelve men at the initial meeting also mirror the twelve signs of the zodiac and the twelve lunar months of the year.
I think New Zealand as the other side of the world is at the heart of this book, in that sense it reminded me somewhat of Conrad’s “Hear of Darkness”, with New Zealand as a strange, upside down kind of world where the norms of, in this instance Victorian London society, are upended. Moody at the outset is disorientated by the night sky in the Southern Hemisphere, “the pole star beneath his feet”, and deeply disturbed by an event he has witnessed or imagined on board ship. This “upside down” world of the frontier town of Hokitika is a world where pimps, opium addicts and dealers and all manner of vices are accepted and do not cause the raised eyebrows they would in Victorian England. Added to this is the enigma of the Maori people and the mystery of their association with the land compounded by a language that cannot be comprehend. This is a new world both alluring, scary and governed entirely by chance or fortune. All the characters are seeking their fortune, with the possible exception of the Maori, Te Rau Tauwhare, although he too is hunting a precious commodity. They are all in the grip of fortunes caprice and all are suffering an ungovernable obsession.
I have to admit until the final chapters I was nowhere near sure where this book was taking me – I seemed to be on a rollercoaster ride of multiple characters and intersecting events. What initially appeared to be some kind of secret society morphed into a Victorian murder mystery replete with multiple suspects, motives, forged documents, missing wills, secret marriages and illegitimacy which then turned in the final analysis into a love triangle.
Unlike Gannon I have to say that IMO the characters seemed to fade (as the moon fades!) as the book moved on and by the end I am not entirely sure I have a mental picture of any of them. For instance is Lydia Wells, an unscrupulous manipulator or genuine friend to Anna? Is Crosbie Wells a violent man or a paragon of forgiveness as the letters in Alistair Lauderback’s trunk seem to suggest?
There are loads of questions unanswered, was Anna ever shot? What was the miscarriage story about or was she ever pregnant? Who killed Crosbie Wells or indeed was his death simply misadventure?
I enjoyed this book a lot and my final assessment of it would be that the thrill was in the reading journey not the destination.

[gali]

Without doubt this is a unique and original work and one I enjoyed reading immensely.
Let me say at the outset that my knowledge of astrology is limited and really does not go much beyond knowing the 12 zodiac signs and a vague knowledge of the traits associated with some of those signs. I did get Anna and Staines as The Luminaries of the title and the concept of them as some sort of astral twins in the grip of the waxing and waning of the Moon and Sun. This is exemplified in the way the physical health of each waxes and wanes in tandem - mirroring the way the strength of the Moon wanes in direct proportion to the strength of the Sun. The twelve men at the initial meeting also mirror the twelve signs of the zodiac and the twelve lunar months of the year.
I think New Zealand as the other side of the world is at the heart of this book, in that sense it reminded me somewhat of Conrad’s “Hear of Darkness”, with New Zealand as a strange, upside down kind of world where the norms of, in this instance Victorian London society, are upended. Moody at the outset is disorientated by the night sky in the Southern Hemisphere, “the pole star beneath his feet”, and deeply disturbed by an event he has witnessed or imagined on board ship. This “upside down” world of the frontier town of Hokitika is a world where pimps, opium addicts and dealers and all manner of vices are accepted and do not cause the raised eyebrows they would in Victorian England. Added to this is the enigma of the Maori people and the mystery of their association with the land compounded by a language that cannot be comprehend. This is a new world both alluring, scary and governed entirely by chance or fortune. All the characters are seeking their fortune, with the possible exception of the Maori, Te Rau Tauwhare, although he too is hunting a precious commodity. They are all in the grip of fortunes caprice and all are suffering an ungovernable obsession.
I have to admit until the final chapters I was nowhere near sure where this book was taking me – I seemed to be on a rollercoaster ride of multiple characters and intersecting events. What initially appeared to be some kind of secret society morphed into a Victorian murder mystery replete with multiple suspects, motives, forged documents, missing wills, secret marriages and illegitimacy which then turned in the final analysis into a love triangle.
Unlike Gannon I have to say that IMO the characters seemed to fade (as the moon fades!) as the book moved on and by the end I am not entirely sure I have a mental picture of any of them. For instance is Lydia Wells, an unscrupulous manipulator or genuine friend to Anna? Is Crosbie Wells a violent man or a paragon of forgiveness as the letters in Alistair Lauderback’s trunk seem to suggest?
There are loads of questions unanswered, was Anna ever shot? What was the miscarriage story about or was she ever pregnant? Who killed Crosbie Wells or indeed was his death simply misadventure?
I enjoyed this book a lot and my final assessment of it would be that the thrill was in the reading journey not the destination.

Great review! I love a well written Victorian murder mystery. Hopefully I will get to it this weekend.

[Gannon]

Maverickf1 - great answers, you answered a couple of questions I had too.

Fran

Great review Fran. I can see where you are coming from in regards to the characters and you may be right. The fading of the characters certainly connects to the Lunar theme of the book.
I must admit to being confused about the shooting of Anna. I am inclined to agree with Maverickf1's wonderful first answer in his post.
I was never really sure what happened to the bullet and the story of Emery being behind the curtain confused me even more. I think that the bullet somehow being transferred between the twins is the best explanation and reminds me of the twins in the movie "Hellboy 2" where if one twin is injured the other twin receives the same wound.

What happened to Crosbie? This has to be the most baffling part of the book for me. Well we know how he died but was it at Carver's hand or was it just a tragic mistake? Crosbie knew that Carver would kill him if given the chance, so maybe this was Carvers way of getting past his guard. I would love to read DATo's thoughts on this.

It seems you have the same questions that I was left with too Fran. The miscarriage? Carver seems genuinely surprised when he finds out about it and adamantly denies being the father. Was the whole pregnancy Anna's fabrication?

[DATo]

The Luminaries is certainly the most ambitious literary project I have encountered in a very long time, perhaps ever. Like so many other readers I was handicapped by my ignorance of astrology, and I'm sure that this handicap prevented me from associating many of the conceits in their proper astrological guise; but like most readers this handicap did not prevent me from appreciating Catton's magnum opus.

I echo Fran's opinion. In the words of Robert Louis Stevenson, ... To travel with hope is a better thing than to arrive, and true success is to labor." ... Well, "traveling" through this novel was indeed a pleasurable excursion and by the time one has completed the journey one is certainly aware of having "labored". *LOL* I refer of course to the length of the novel and the enormously complex web of characters and their associations as well as the complexity of the intertwining plot(s).

The first half of the novel, which itself is longer than the entirety of many novels, serves to set the backdrop of the story. This period requires great patience and concentration on the part of the reader. It is at precisely the midpoint of the novel that Catton begins to put the pieces into play, as-it-were, and the mysteries, by degrees, are allowed to unfold like a blooming flower revealing the details which have thus far been hidden from our eyes.

There is little I can add to the interpretations others have offered except to suggest that 1) perhaps Crosbie Wells' death was a suicide and 2) Crosbie's letters were written by Lydia? Catton left many facets of this story unresolved, and that can be a good thing in a novel, but it can also be a nuisance when this device is over exploited. Leaving a question unanswered can add spice to a novel ... leaving a multitude of questions unanswered can add a decomposing, dead muskrat to the stew. Perhaps the answers may be extrapolated with a thorough vetting filtered through the skein of astrology but that is far more work than I would be willing to invest in a novel. Let it suffice to say that I found the story interesting enough to complete the book, despite the effort, the writing to be very good, and the construction pure genius. Though I enjoyed this novel I would be reluctant to recommend it to anyone but the most serious and erudite readers because of its complexity and ultimate frustrations, but would not hesitate to recommend it to readers who I think would appreciate a deeply engrossing and mature literary challenge.

To those who enjoyed this book I would strongly recommend The Thousand Autumns Of Jacob de Zoet by David Mitchell. This is also an historical novel with a plethora of characters and many subplots, but omits the mind-boggling, unanswered mysteries of Catton's novel. No astrology either, and as Martha Stewart might say ... "And that's a good thing." *LOL*. I'm pretty certain that Fran would back me up on that one.

EDIT:
GANNON - I am knee deep in The Bone Clocks - a far less demanding book - and I am enjoying it very much so far. I look forward to hearing your views on this book because, as I recall, you are also reading it at this time. It is such a pleasure to be hearing Mitchell's "voice" once again! There are shades of Ghostwritten to be found in this book and I have just encountered a character from Black Swan Green.

[Fran]

@DATo
"dadecomposing, dead muskrat" ... (I can always count on you for a laugh of the day)
Totally second your recommendation of The Thousand Autumns, brilliant book.

Am I the only one to put Alistair Lauderback in the frame for the murder of Crosbie Wells? Maybe I just instinctively think the worst of would-be politicians but he did have means, motive and opportunity

There are a couple of quotes that jumped out at me as I was reading:
Moody says "As a child he had know instincitively that it was always better to tell a partial truth with a willing aspect that to tell a perfect truth in a defensive way". Wonder has this a relevance to the willingness of all the characters to tell their version of the story "with a willing aspect"? Can't help feeling we are getting a partial truth in this book.

Moody also says "We spend our entire lives thinking about death. Without that project to divert us, I expect we would all be dreadfully bored ... time would have no consequence." Anyone agree with this? There is certainly an element of "time having no consequence" in this book.

[DATo]

@DATo
"dadecomposing, dead muskrat" ... :o :lol: :lol: (I can always count on you for a laugh of the day)
Totally second your recommendation of The Thousand Autumns, brilliant book.

Am I the only one to put Alistair Lauderback in the frame for the murder of Crosbie Wells? Maybe I just instinctively think the worst of would-be politicians but he did have means, motive and opportunity ;)

Fran, I was going to say ... "a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys" until I remembered that Douglas Adams had already beat me to it.

Lauderback may have had the motive and the opportunity but how did he get Wells to die in the manner he did? That is my main reason to think Wells died willingly ... maybe ... perhaps ... possibly ... *Shrugs*

[MonPin23]

The Luminaries Eleanor Catton might just be my next book. thanks for the reviews.